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I have found that lots of little rule changes with 4th ed rules came in under the radar. Eg. it appears that tyranid monstrous creature can no longer join units. Which makes for lots of fun with veteran players start using bits of old rules.
I have searched the McCragge rule book and Tyranid codex and nowhere is there any link with IC rules and MC rules. There is a mention of monstous creatures in the "Shooting at Characters" paragraph but this is purely about singling out monstrous creatures, which tyrant guard prevent.
What this means is that a Hive Tyrant with Tyrant Guard is essentially treated like a squad sargeant. Is this correct or a GW oversight (like rending bioplasma)?
You got it right, that is the whole point of tyrant guards.
There are still other MCs who can join units as they are also ICs, such as eldar avatars or statured chaos lords.
Actually, that brings up another question:
The rules state that one can single out a monstrous creature from its squad in shooting. However, can you choose not to do that, thereby forcing the MC to use the squad's majority toughness? With Tyranids it doesn't matter, since Tyrant Guard are T6. However, Tomb Spiders and other MCs that may be in squads will pretty much always be surrounded by models with a much lower toughness.
Why do the survivors remain anonymous -- as if cursed -- while the dead are revered? Why do we cling to what we lose while we ignore what we still hold?
Name none of the fallen, for they stood in our place, and stand there still in each moment of our lives.
--Duiker, "Deadhouse Gates"
yes, you can shoot the squad, but would need a "torrent of fire" to wound the MC at the squads toughness. So, a mc in a squad of 4 takes 5 hits to the squad to put one wound roll on the mc. alternatively, you can shoot the mc singles out and put all the shots to it. Depends on your guns and what's coming at ya. You get the choice though.Originally Posted by Ostsol
Torrent of fire applies post-to-wound-roll and causes seperate armour saves, not seperate to wound rolls.
Actually if the MC is in front of the squad and you can not see around it, then you can not shoot the squad. Because MC and vehicles block LOS. But you could still shoot the MC .
Doesn't matter if the mc is in front or not if it's joined with the squad. You are correct though that if it wasn't joined, then it would block los.Originally Posted by bonekrusher
P 23, multiple toughness "if their is a majority, use that toughness, if no majority, use the lowest toughness to see if you wound.
p76 mixed armour-firing form "sets" that must first be applied to the majority save, once each model with the majority save has one wound allocated to it, then the other models in the unit are assigned wounds. If a unit receives more wounds than it has models, they "wrap around, being applied to the majority save again, until the wounds are all distributed evenly per model.
Yes mutiple toughness is right if you can see whole squad but you do not take in account LOS rules. If you can not see rest of the squad how can you kill it. For example if I had 6 man squad and 1 was in woods while rest was behind the woods. You could only see 1 person so he is only that can died. LOS and range of the weapons weapons do come into play .
Of course why would I hide my retinue behind my MC. I rather have retinue died before my MC ,so it might be moot point on my part.
70% of all stats are made up
Just to throw my two cents in, a unit cannot block line of sight to itself, (ie the tomb spyder in a unit with scarabs can't block line of sight to the scarabs). Unfortunatly, I don't have my BGB here so, I can't give you a page reference.
A little pain never hurt anyone - Larry
Apples and oranges BK, apples and oranges.Originally Posted by bonekrusher
MC's block LOS, correct. But you can shoot 100 shots into him, which get dispersed into the squad since the are in range and thats how squads take fire. As to the LOS of your squad, you are correct, since according to range checks, they are not in LOS.
Once the MC is in the squad, he counts as part of the squad, meaning he doesn't block LOS to them.
I'll dig a page ref is I can just for the sake of it. will post that later