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Recently I was taking Blood Angels against a friend of mine with Tau. He had 3 Hammerhead skimmers/tanks. A group of my tactical squad was hanging out behind a large level 3 area of trees (more than 6" deep so normally no LOS through it) with a large clearing with no terrain in the middle. He wanted to shoot at them with his Hammerhead. He said that since skimmers fly over terrain, and are not level with it, but above it, that they can see over terrain that would otherwise block LOS from other models (such as a normal tank vs a skimmer tank). Because we had done it this way in the past, and a quick perusal of the rule book did not yield any results, I went ahead and let him shoot to get the game moving.
However, since then I have looked through the rulebook extensively and not found any information to address this question. Does a skimmer flying over terrain gain any benefit to it's LOS due to the fact that it flies OVER the terrain instead of at the same level as it? The rulebook seems only to address how the skimmer can move over cover (the assumption by my friend being that this means the skimmer can also see over it).
I can see it from both sides. While it doesn't make sense for a skimmer to be able to see a Marine standing close to, but still on the far side of, a level 3 building or wall (it would have to be extremely high in the air to get the right kind of angle). It also doesn't make much sense that if that same skimmer ended it's move on top of a large piece of level 3 area terrain, it would not be able to see more than 6" through it. Or, if it stopped on top of a building, not at all.
Has anyone else run into issues such as this? If so, have you found anything that addresses the issue in the rules, or if they don't do we have to assume that since the rules do not spell out any benefit, then there is none?
Thanks for your response.
Last edited by shriverm; November 2nd, 2005 at 05:03.
Ok, well I guess there have been a lot of skimmer questions lately. So I looked through a few of them and it sounds like there is no benefit to flying over terrain for LOS purposes. I would have deleted the post, but I can't figure out how. /shrug
All tanks are size 3 vehicles and have LOS blocked by and size 3 terrain. They cannot simply fly higher than the intervening terrain as there are no provisions in the rules to allow this. Skimmers only get movement benefits, the LOS rules apply to them the same as a ground-based tank.Originally Posted by shrivermThe 40k rules do not have provisions for this. The CityFight rules do correct this oversight that a size 2 model on top of size 3 terrain is classified as size 5 for LOS purposes. In the 40k rules a skimmer hovering over terrain is unaffected by that terrain for both LOS and cover but all other terrain still blocks LOS normally. This is dumb IMO but there are numerous areas throughout the rules where this occurs.Originally Posted by shrivermThe 40k rules say to trace actual LOS from model to model. If you follow these rules then your idea is correct. If you can get a high enough angle you can see and shoot the target (and be shot by that same target). However the LOS rules work on terrain size classes and not actual terrain height. It is because of the actual LOS rules that this argument loses merit. I agree it is not the most realistic way to handle it but it may be the most streamlined. GW makes rules to speed gameplay at the expense of realism all the time.Originally Posted by shrivermI actually argued this very point on a previous post and was promptly shot down. My friends and I incorporated some of the CityFight rules to make 40k a bit more realistic. But in a tournament you're stuck with the literal interpretation of the rules in the BGB.Originally Posted by shrivermYou're welcome.Originally Posted by shriverm
I do not criticize. I do not offend. All I offer is my opinion which means only as much as you make it.
If a skimmer ends its move over (and I stress over) terrain it can see to and be seen from every point on the battlefield.
It's on the page just after the descriptions and pictures of the types of vehicles (i.e. the non rules bit).
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone