Army composition rules. - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Age
    38
    Posts
    98
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    6 (x1)

    Army composition rules.

    Hello all. I am getting back into 40k after a hiatus and for the purpose of designing my army list I wanted to know what kind of unspoken "composition rules" people generally expect each other to follow (to tell you the truth, I never really had a grasp of them even back in the day). Is there an official line on this?

    -Drake


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Prowling LO, looking for fresh meat.
    Posts
    4,571
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    476 (x8)

    It's best to avoid maxing out on HQ/Fast Attack/Heavy Support while only taking minimum troops choices.

    So if you've got three vindicators and 2 5 man scout squads, you're going to get some funny looks.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by amishcellphone
    <3 rork. He does all the arguing so I don't have to.

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Ostsol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,907
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    80 (x4)

    There's nothing really official, except that your aim should be to have fun. In general, though, min-maxing tends to piss people off. Minimum squad sizes with maximum heavy weapons or a minimum number of troop choices with a maximum number of other categories. . . People tend to get annoyed at that sort of thing.
    Why do the survivors remain anonymous -- as if cursed -- while the dead are revered? Why do we cling to what we lose while we ignore what we still hold?
    Name none of the fallen, for they stood in our place, and stand there still in each moment of our lives.

    --Duiker, "Deadhouse Gates"

    -Ostsol

  5. #4
    Senior Member Romulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Charleston, WV USA
    Age
    47
    Posts
    515
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    31 (x2)

    We have a guy that takes min Guardian squads to get a Wave Serpent each.

    He has like 6 wave serpents, falcon, wraithlord and war walkers as his army. HQ rides in Falcon.
    40K: Tyranid, Necron, Space Wolves
    Fantasy: Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarves

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Age
    38
    Posts
    98
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    6 (x1)

    Well, I know that taking two minimum size troops squads is a no-no, for example. And obviously something like three wraithlords is not going to make one popular. I was hoping to get some numbers... like.. "at least x% troops", "not more than x% heavy support" and so on.

    -Drake

  7. #6
    Senior Member Romulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Charleston, WV USA
    Age
    47
    Posts
    515
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    31 (x2)

    Work up a first draft list and we can go from there. We all can call....."Cheese" or "No-Cheese"
    40K: Tyranid, Necron, Space Wolves
    Fantasy: Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarves

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Scotch Plains, NJ, USA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    953
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    40 (x2)

    This whole cheese/no cheese stuff drives me crazy. This is a game and as long as you're not breaking the rules who can say anything. Any time you use a powerful unit someone will classify you as cheesy. Sure I hate going up against Wraithlords and 3 of them would really suck but if it's allowed by the rules so be it.

    It seems there are two types of 40k players. Those who fluff and those who don't. If you fluff then you build your army around a specific theme even though it may suck on the battlefield. If you don't fluff you play to win and build your army around tactics and don't care what it looks like. Both types of players are completely valid and for either one to criticize the other is a waste of time.

    Play against your own type and you'll have a good game. Play against the other and you'll have problems. The goal is to have an enjoyable game either way for both players involved.
    I do not criticize. I do not offend. All I offer is my opinion which means only as much as you make it.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Age
    38
    Posts
    98
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    6 (x1)

    Cheese or no cheese?

    Okay, let's take this tyranid list for starters.

    1500 pts. (actually this list is one point over at 1501)

    HQ - 244 pts.

    [143] Tyrant w/ wings, scything talons x2, +1S
    [101] Tyrant w/ +1BS, twin linked devourer x2

    Elites: - 432 pts.

    [216] 6 * Warriors w/ scything talons, rending claws, +1Sv, leaping, symbiote rippers
    [216] 6 * Warriors w/ scything talons, rending claws, +1Sv, leaping, symbiote rippers

    Troops - 384 pts.

    [096] 16 * Gaunts w/ fleshborers
    [096] 16 * Gaunts w/ fleshborers
    [096] 16 * Gaunts w/ fleshborers
    [096] 16 * Gaunts w/ fleshborers

    Heavy Support - 441

    [163] Carnifex w/ venom cannon, barbed strangler, +1BS, +1W
    [113] Carnifex w/ scything talons x2 , +1WS, toxic miasma
    [165] 3 * Zoanthropes w/ warp blast

    Actually this might get a "slight cheese" rating even in my eyes.. I should drop a zoanthrope and turn it into troops to make troops the largest section. But it is not far off and the list does not seem terribly cheesy to me.

    However, from the perspective of most of the composition scoring systems I have seen online, this list probably gets an "ultimate cheese" rating. One problem I am having, ironically, is that I cannot get enough points into my troops section without buying stuff I don't want. The gaunts are my troop of choice but they are so cheap that I run into a limitation that is not in the book - I cannot fit all the buggers into my deployment zone! If you look at this army on the field instead of at the points, it doesn't look cheesy at all. There are more than three little guys for every medium or big guy.

    Anyway. Thoughts?

    I have a sort of composition rule set forming in my head that I may bring out later, but I find that there is one golden rule of anti-cheese: design your army before you know what army your opponent will be playing. The "nothing but heavies" cheese can be annoying but nothing takes the fun out of the game like someone building his army attuned to yours - except someone knowing not only your army but your list and tuning to THAT.

    Drake
    Last edited by Drake Dun; November 4th, 2005 at 20:35.

  10. #9
    LO Zealot Kirasu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,521
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    47 (x4)

    I honestly don't understand the whole minimizing your troops thing.. WIthout a solid core of troops (Or just bodies in general) you'll lose, so while some think its cheesy to maxout heavy support and have 2 scout squads I think its an easy win :p

    Wave serpents are not even scoring units, therefore that guy basically auto-loses already..

    SCoring units win games

  11. #10
    Senior Member Romulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Charleston, WV USA
    Age
    47
    Posts
    515
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    31 (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Dun
    Okay, let's take this tyranid list for starters.

    1500 pts. (actually this list is one point over at 1501)

    HQ - 244 pts.

    [143] Tyrant w/ wings, scything talons x2, +1S
    [101] Tyrant w/ +1BS, twin linked devourer x2

    Elites: - 432 pts.

    [216] 6 * Warriors w/ scything talons, rending claws, +1Sv, leaping, symbiote rippers
    [216] 6 * Warriors w/ scything talons, rending claws, +1Sv, leaping, symbiote rippers

    Troops - 384 pts.

    [096] 16 * Gaunts w/ fleshborers
    [096] 16 * Gaunts w/ fleshborers
    [096] 16 * Gaunts w/ fleshborers
    [096] 16 * Gaunts w/ fleshborers

    Heavy Support - 441

    [163] Carnifex w/ venom cannon, barbed strangler, +1BS, +1W
    [113] Carnifex w/ scything talons x2 , +1WS, toxic miasma
    [165] 3 * Zoanthropes w/ warp blast

    Actually this might get a "slight cheese" rating even in my eyes.. I should drop a zoanthrope and turn it into troops to make troops the largest section. But it is not far off and the list does not seem terribly cheesy to me.

    However, from the perspective of most of the composition scoring systems I have seen online, this list probably gets an "ultimate cheese" rating. One problem I am having, ironically, is that I cannot get enough points into my troops section without buying stuff I don't want. The gaunts are my troop of choice but they are so cheap that I run into a limitation that is not in the book - I cannot fit all the buggers into my deployment zone! If you look at this army on the field instead of at the points, it doesn't look cheesy at all. There are more than three little guys for every medium or big guy.

    Anyway. Thoughts?

    I have a sort of composition rule set forming in my head that I may bring out later, but I find that there is one golden rule of anti-cheese: design your army before you know what army your opponent will be playing. The "nothing but heavies" cheese can be annoying but nothing takes the fun out of the game like someone building his army attuned to yours - except someone knowing not only your army but your list and tuning to THAT.

    Drake
    I'm a Nid player and don't over look the benefits of Genestealers.

    In case you missed it in the Nid Codex......If your Carnifex is under 115 points you can make him Elite. This frees up a Heavy spot and gets you a Biovore for some artillery. Drop a Zoranthope and grab a Biovore.

    Biovores are very handy when you face Beserkers or anyone that must charge when in range. They get forced to charge the sporemines!! Very amusing when that happens.

    About your list......It looks balanced to me. It's hard to put a lot in troops points wise when they cost 8 points each. You have 64 troops and that is more than many ENTIRE armies at 1500 points.
    Last edited by Romulus; November 4th, 2005 at 22:22.
    40K: Tyranid, Necron, Space Wolves
    Fantasy: Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarves

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts