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    Target Priority and leadership tests

    This may have come up in the past, but since it kinda urked me in my last game, I wanted to get a solid answer for it.

    If I wanted to shoot at an Infantry squad, but was closer to a vehicle, do I have to make a leadership test to shoot at the infantry instead of the vehicle? My opponent said that because his skimmer was closer to my guys that I would have to make a leadership test to shoot at his farther away infantry. I can understand if this was infantry vs infantry as target priority or vehicle versus vehicle, but why would I have to choose between a skimmer and infantry?

    Also since I have your attention (Hehe Im so bad). a few questions about cover. Now I have found in the main rule book this statement. When a firers line of sight crosses over cover so that the target models are partially obscured the model receives the cover save. So I am understanding that if my opponents guys are shooting at my Gaunts behind a pile of sandbags, as long as his line of sight goes over the pile of sandbags, I get the cover save right. Or do I have to be physically touching the cover with models to get it?

    One last question: My Hive Tyrant with wings jumped into a ruined building in an attempt to assault his guys already in the building. A): Do I have to make a Dangerous terrain test? It was considered area terrain. : Does this count as assaulting into cover for inititive purposes now that the Hive Tyrant is actually in the same cover?

    Thanks


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    Senior Member I am the Monkey King's Avatar
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    I think you do have to take the test, the reasoning being that it takes quite a lot of nerve to shoot at some wee guys when there's a great big tank closer to you than they are (I realise it might not have been a big tank but this is a general statement about targetting issues here)

    As far as I understand cover so long as it obscures their line of sight to you, you get the save.

    I'm pretty sure your Tyrant would have to make a difficult terrain test, landing in a ruin could be rather hazardous, and I think it would count as assaulting into cover, there's presumably piles of rubble and suchlike that aren't modeled in teh building, same as you don't model all the trees in a wood.
    Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tragedy316
    If I wanted to shoot at an Infantry squad, but was closer to a vehicle, do I have to make a leadership test to shoot at the infantry instead of the vehicle? My opponent said that because his skimmer was closer to my guys that I would have to make a leadership test to shoot at his farther away infantry. I can understand if this was infantry vs infantry as target priority or vehicle versus vehicle, but why would I have to choose between a skimmer and infantry?
    You can ignore closer infantry to target a large target like a tank without a LD roll but not the other way around. If the tank (or speeder) is the closest you have to roll to shoot anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tragedy316
    Also since I have your attention (Hehe Im so bad). a few questions about cover. Now I have found in the main rule book this statement. When a firers line of sight crosses over cover so that the target models are partially obscured the model receives the cover save. So I am understanding that if my opponents guys are shooting at my Gaunts behind a pile of sandbags, as long as his line of sight goes over the pile of sandbags, I get the cover save right. Or do I have to be physically touching the cover with models to get it?
    That is a correct statement. However, I remember reading somewhere that you have to be within 6" for the cover to be effective. So, if you weren't near the sandbags they wouldn't provide cover just because they are in the LOS. This seems logical as sandbags 50 feet away from a model shouldn't provide cover at all. I cannot find the page of FAQ where I read this though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tragedy316
    One last question: My Hive Tyrant with wings jumped into a ruined building in an attempt to assault his guys already in the building. A): Do I have to make a Dangerous terrain test? It was considered area terrain. : Does this count as assaulting into cover for inititive purposes now that the Hive Tyrant is actually in the same cover?
    Any time your tyrant jumps into dangerous terrain he must make a dangerous terrain test just like normal jump infantry. Yes, it still counts as assaulting into cover for initiative purposes. Remember those flesh hooks...
    I do not criticize. I do not offend. All I offer is my opinion which means only as much as you make it.

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    If you move into area terrain during the movement phase then assault a squad there during the assault phase the target unit doesn't get the benefit of cover. The cover benefit only applies if you move into cover during the assault phase. In the example given by Tragedy316 the Hive Tyrant would have to take a dangerous terrain test for flying into area terrain, but would go at initiative when assaulting a unit in that area terrain during the assault phase. If the HT was outside the area terrain at the end of his movement phase and then went on to assault the unit in cover during his assault phase he would go at iniative 1 unless he had flesh hooks or whatever the 'Nid equivelent of frag grenades are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordCreampuff
    Any time your tyrant jumps into dangerous terrain he must make a dangerous terrain test just like normal jump infantry. Yes, it still counts as assaulting into cover for initiative purposes. Remember those flesh hooks...
    On that note, unless your unit is a skimmer, you MUST land and if in terrain take a difficult terrain test (unless rules state otherwise).

    Meaning you can't be "hovering over the trees" so to speak with winged creatures, jump packs, etc.

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    Thanks for the replies. Unfortunatly now it seems we have a bit of conflict about going into the same terrain as the group your are going to assault. Can anyone who replied please give a reference as to where these rules are posted. I checked The 40k Rulebook on target priority and it says nothing in that section about having to make a test to shoot at infantry rather than a closer tank.

    The example for the cover is this. My gaunts were behind sandbags, within 6" but not touching. His squad shot at them with assault cannons. The LOS went over the sandbags to get to my gaunts. His comment was since the gaunts were not touching the sandbags, they dont get the cover save. As a result 6 gaunts were killed without saves. Granted it would have been only a 5+ save, but there are two things I look for now while playing nids. A): Taking any save I can get cover or otherwise, and : Finding anyway possible for my opponent not to shoot at me.

    As for the Tyrant, here is the example again. My opponent had a group inside an area terrain crumbled building. At the beginning of the turn, My tyrant with wings moved 12" into the terrain itself behind the squad. He made his dangerous terrain test and passed, but then I was told that since I was assaulting a group in cover, even though I was IN THE SAME COVER as them, they would get to go first. Thankfully I did have flesh hooks on the beast, but if I didnt, they would be hitting before me. I just want to make sure that when the issue arrises again, I can have a counter reason behind these questions.

    Again, if at all possible please site where the information you are using comes from within legal limits of this board so I can look at it myself and point it out if necessary when the time comes.

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    For target priority read the last sentence on page 19, that "anything" makes it pretty clear you need to take a test.

    As for cover, I can't find anything about area tarrain and assaults in the rulebook, but I think it does count as assaulting into cover. Can anyone find a reference in the book? I only gave it quite a cursory look over (trying to do many thingas at once here).
    Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.

    +++ Osric the Loopy, planetary governor of Corania (appointed 756.M41, removed from office by the Officio Assassinorum 764.M41) +++

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    Target priority, see page 19 in the rulebook, the second diagram deals with large targets.

    Your gaunts would have got an cover save as the shot went over cover.

    For defination on how cover works when shot at, see page 25 of the rulebook, under "units partially in cover", this should answer your questions.

    Hope this helps.

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    Page 19 does not answer the priority question. The question is: If I am closer to a tank than the infantry that I want to shoot at, do I have to test to shoot at the infantry. Page 19 deals with priority for determing if I can shoot at infanty vs infantry or vehicle vs vehicle. Meaning I know that I have to make a test to shoot at a farther away infantry squad if an infantry squad is closer to me, and the same for vehicles.

    For example. My squad wants to shoot at an infantry squad, the closest one there. HOWEVER, there is a tank/skimmer that is closer to me than the infantry that i want to shoot at. Do i have to make a LD test not to shoot at the tank?

    As far as the cover thing goes, I think I may have answered my own question. If a model gets a cover save, for whatever reason, then it counts as assaulting into cover if you assault them. However, lets say a group of warriors is hiding behind a sandbag pile. If I assault them from the front, they get their cover saves and therefore get the assaulting into cover rule. If some how I get BEHIND them, by jumping over them with wings, then assault them, since I dont have to go through cover to get to them and they DONT get their cover saves normally, it wouldnt count as assaulting into cover.

    I guess the only question still unanswered is the tank vs infantry priority one

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    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    Read page 19 carefully, as tanks are treated as large targets, infantry can be ignored if you wish to shoot at the closest tank.

    Shooting at further away vehicles (when another one is closer) requires a LD test.

    Hope this helps.

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