Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Alright. Space Marine sargeants are equipped with either a bolter or a bolt pistol and close combat weapon (bp/ccw). In addition, they are allowed to buy terminator honours at 15 points, which gives them access to the armoury.
Now, once a sargeant has access to the armoury, it is allowed to purchase one one-handed weapon (1h weapon) and 1h weapon or one two-handed weapon (2h weapon). Beyond these two weapons, only one of which may be a 2-h weapon, it may purchase no other weapons from the armoury.
Then the question arises--do the bolter or bp/ccw count as having been purchased from the armoury? After all, all three are things that can be purchased from the armoury. It seems like the answer is simple, yet, if it is simple, then it seems to leave us open to some apparent problems (regardless of what you think the answer is).
If the bolter or bp/ccw don't count against the limit on weapons imposed by the Armoury, there's nothing stopping a model from having a bolt pistol, close combat weapon, power fist, and bolter--all at the same time. Your sargeants, for a mere one point beyond what they cost already (with their Terminator Honours, Bolt Pistols, and Power Fists) could be carrying around bolters, too!
On the other hand, if the bolter or bp/ccw do count against the limit of weapons imposed by the armoury, you can't have a BP/Power Fist sargeant at all! It is actually impossible. Either you'd start with a bolter and be able to buy a Power Fist only, or you'd start with a bp/ccw and not be able to buy anything (weapons wise).
Personally, I'm going to start modeling side-slung bolters on my sargeants and paying an extra point for them. Having another 24" shot is well worth the one point.
I am kinda curious to see what responses I'm likely to get to this particular caviat of the rules are, given that I just realized this is how it works.
i'm not really sure what kind of argument your looking for here bean, basically the response will be "rules are what the tourney organizer says they are" and tell you that you wont be able to do it in a tournament. I wont stop you when we play, but I'm not sure who else would let you get away with it.
Take life seriously, its lethal.
Usually if the character already has weapons, then weapons purchased from the armoury replace them. For example: a Sergeant with a Bolt Pistol and close combat weapon may buy a Power Fist and choose to discard either his pistol or close combat weapon. However, unless I'm missing something, the rules don't seem to say if one may keep weapons for later use, rather than replacing them.
Why do the survivors remain anonymous -- as if cursed -- while the dead are revered? Why do we cling to what we lose while we ignore what we still hold?
Name none of the fallen, for they stood in our place, and stand there still in each moment of our lives.
--Duiker, "Deadhouse Gates"
the rules dont really say anything about discarding them either.
Take life seriously, its lethal.
and here I thought the word "replace" meant that you no longer had what you started with....
Mysterious Member of the ANZAC Clan
Well, I guess it really depends on the interpretation. What I basically get from the way the text on page 22 of the space marine codex as written, is that a model may have/carry up to any 2 weapons from the armory list and or force list, one of which may be two handed. So if your sergeant wanted to have a bolt pistol/power glove combo it would not be a violation because that would be with in the two weapon limit he would be caring on the field. The reason being is that he exchanged the close combat weapon for the power glove. Now it does state in the Codex (page 34 for example) that the sergeant may replace his bolter for a bolt pistol and close combat weapon, which would mean that if you had the bolter, bolt pistol, and close combat weapon, you would be in volition of two of the "rules" (2 weapon limit, replacing a weapon for another.) So, the "rule" is implied rather then stated. however, in the end if the people that you play with are ok with what you do, then it really doesn't matter does it? I would just suggest that you approach a Judge with your view on the rules before bring your army to a tournament, for he is the final word in the tournament and you could be facing an automatic forfeit if they do not agree.
I myself, with how I interpret the way the rules are written would have to say no. But that is just me.
A model may only have two weapons. Of these two only one may be a two-handed weapon. You can't have three weapons. There is no loophole. Nice try.
Look, Malachi, this has been hashed out time and time again in the past. I'd like to avoid it, but the fact is--there is no rule at all which limits a model to only two weapons. If you can find this rule or quote it from somewhere, go for it.
However, I know for a fact that you can't--since such a rule doesn't exist. Think before posting.
As for the rest of, it Replacing is never mentioned. Further, the rules specific to the armoury refer to selecting weapons out of the armoury. They do not refer to carrying, owning, fielding, or anything else--just selecting them from the armoury.
Either all your weapons are selected from the armoury, or just the ones you get after the bp/ccs or bolter. Either way, the results are those I stated above.
Last edited by Bean; February 5th, 2006 at 05:14.
The first sentence in the armoury section in codex space marines seems to say that. At least to me anyway: "up to two weapons" generally means you can't have more than 2.
Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.
+++ Osric the Loopy, planetary governor of Corania (appointed 756.M41, removed from office by the Officio Assassinorum 764.M41) +++
That's because you're not reading the rest of the sentance, monkey. It says: Models with access to the armoury may select up to two weapons of which only one can be a two-handed weapon.
It specifies the set of models to which it applies: models with access to the armoury.
It specifies what it restricts for those models: the number of weapons they may select.
Neither of which invalidate my point at all.