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My question on this matter is how do we determine what effect of each weapon are on at all times? It seems to me that the wording of the powerfist in so far as doubling stats is that it is an 'always on' principle, as it doesn’t start that only attacks delivered by the fist are doubled.Originally Posted by Caluin
Disclaimer: This isn't something that I would do in game, regardless of the outcome of the thread. I'm not trying to power game, or rules lawyer my way to victory, I'm just curious.
Last edited by Daedelus; March 10th, 2006 at 00:34.
Originally Posted by Andusciassus
Well, it seems to me that logically, the str boost of a powerfist applies only to the str of that specific hand, becuse of the way a powerfist works. Therefore, only attacks with that hand would recieve the bonus.. not, say, the power weapon in the other hand, because you can't use the crushing grip of the powerfist to swing the power weapon.
Whereas, the berserker glaive makes one berserk, thus granting extra attacks in general, in theory.
theres also weapons like the darkblade which say "it grants +2 str when rolling for woudns or AP." it doesnt specify that only when you attack with that weapon.
lightning claws that say "wearer may reroll all failed to wounds while wearing them." doesnt specify only wounds made with that weapon.
so if one combo is alright then they all are.
from now on im just gonna use a 2hnd glaive and a 1hnd lightning claw on my prince.
ill have 10 attacks in which i can reroll all failed to wounds.
leave the moderating to the moderators
if pro is the opposite of con, does that mean progress is the opposite of congress?
There is a specific example that they use in the BGB on page.... 46? They talk about using both a Power weapon and a Powerfist, and only being able to use one per round.Originally Posted by Daedelus
I guess the question is - where do you draw the line? What effects do you consider always on, and on-only-when-you-attack? You can't really apply fluff to it, and common sense tends to only get you in trouble, so what's the distinction?
I have no problems in saying that the Glaive only confers the double attack bonus if you use it in combat. But if you're going to claim that, then you'd better be prepared to say that the invulnerable save only applies when you've used the Glaive in Close Combat as well, meaning no saves versus shooting attacks. They're both "confered" by the Glaive in the exact same way, in the exact same sentence, so what applies to one, applies to the other.
Make sure you tell your opponent that you're cheating.Originally Posted by micah
Why do the survivors remain anonymous -- as if cursed -- while the dead are revered? Why do we cling to what we lose while we ignore what we still hold?
Name none of the fallen, for they stood in our place, and stand there still in each moment of our lives.
--Duiker, "Deadhouse Gates"
I would be willing to allow the glaive+fist, but only because of the wording on the glaive entry. It is the only one that specifically states that it effects the models profile. The way I read this makes it sound like a chaos lord with a glaive has 6 base attacks, not just 3.
None of the other weapons specify that their special rules are always on. The glaive's reads differently.
I say no to any affects of a weapon that you aren't wielding. It clearly says p. 13 chaos codex that a model wielding a two handed weapon may not use an additional weapon in close combat. The glaives' power is off when you're not using it. To say otherwise lets people say that a lightning claw lets you reroll wounds just for holding them. It indeed does say profile but that's a gray area, as weapons do alter the profile regardless of their wording.
I draw the line very harshly, but it's better than letting my opponent cheat me.
Ask yourself why in the world would you trust a win loss record? Playing them yourself is the only way to tell.
The true joy in the game is playing down to the last model, no matter the odds.
But you see, if the Glaive stays on and the effects of the glaive are allowed to be 'channeled' throught another weapon, IE:Chainfist, then we can potentialy have the situation that micah has sugested IE, taking a single LC with the glaive, and rather then using the glaive in CC, using the LC.Originally Posted by sephirth
Now all those attacks can reroll failed to wounds, and theres no mastery test, as any kills will be inflicted by the LC, rather then the glaive. It seems slightly un balanced.
Neither combo, either glaive/chainfist, or glaive/LC would be more illigal in then the other.
Originally Posted by Andusciassus
That right there may very well be the answer to the whole situation, and something that I over looked in my original analysis.Originally Posted by mephistophales
On page 13, it does indeed say that if you're weilding a two handed weapon, the model may not use any other close combat weapon. So in just taking the Glaive, you can't even arm the model with another form of Close Combat weapon, whether the effects of the Glaive are always on or not.
The way I see it now, is that if you have the Glaive (Or any other two handed weapon - Manreaper, Great Weapon), you may have another one handed weapon, but it must be a ranged weapon. So no Chainfist, no L-Claws, etc.
So another question - what is specifically "wielding" and specifically "use"? Does wield only apply in Close Combat? Or does wield mean simply having bought it from the armoury?
Ah yes, but if we are going there, then we are going to have to nerf the Accursed Cronzius, in the same manner as well. This same principal would then apply to weapons from other armies that confer similar bonuses, nothing comes to mind at the moment, but there must be something.Originally Posted by Caluin
I propose that a way to determin what effects are always on, versus activated effects be:
If a weapon modifies, models WS, S, I, or A characteristics, (as these characteristics only come into play in CC) the benifits are only availible to the model in close combat when the model attacks with the weapon that grants the bonuses. If the modifier applies to the models T, W, Ld, or Sv (these charcteristics are used both in and out of CC) should be said to be always on. If the modifer alpplies to the models BS, then said modifer would only be availibe in in the shooting phase, with shots made by the weapon.
I relalize that 'I think' really means nothing in the world of GW rules, but this is how I think the rules should work.
Originally Posted by Andusciassus