Need line of sight to use FotA? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Need line of sight to use FotA?

    Had a debate over this during a game today against eldar...

    This was my first time fielding a librarian and first time using FotA.

    He said I had to have line of sight from the librarian all the way across to a table edge in order to use the power, since it is considered 'shooting'?

    It really pissed me off since it basically made the power useless cuz there was alot of terrain... I fielded the librarian on a bike and ran him up the edge where I had a shot at basically his entire army down the middle.

    Anyways, my understanding was that the only way it was stopped was if it touched a friendly unit or CC. That no line of sight was needed.

    But I'm new and didnt feel like arguing.

    Thanks!


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  3. #2
    Member Da Springy Nids's Avatar
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    Your opponent is either a fool or engaging in speculative rules reading...

    If you needed to select a target for FotA then it would have a profile, like any other gun or SotEW. But FotA says you draw a line to any table edge, not to a target squad.

    So pick your direction and blast away.....

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    Senior Member Lord Malachi's Avatar
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    Da Springy Nids is right on the money. FotA is a psychic power, but because it is used during the shooting phase some people try to add rules that don't apply. The decription clearly states you simply pick a spot on a board edge. It says nothing about LOS and it specifies what will stop it.

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    Rulebook, page 52:
    "Unless specified otherwise, psychic abilities are subject to the usual shooting rules, so the psyker must be able to see the target..."

    It doesn't specify that LOS doesn't apply.

    Furthermore, the librarian tactica on the GW homepage says this;
    "Fury of the Ancients. This power is particularly useful at long range, as it can go all the way across the board (within line of sight, of course)."

    http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacema...2Dlibrarian/3/

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    Although it is great that you were able to find that quote on the UK GW website...it doesn't make it an official rule unless it is in an OFFICIAL FAQ that LOS needs to be drawn. Also, I hate to say this, but GW has been wrong about their own rules. For example, at the Chicago GT in the US last year, they allowed Space Marines to Assault out of Drop Pods because they are open topped...even though it clearly states in the rule book that you can not assualt out of a drop pod upon debarkation.

    If you read the FotA entry, It just states that you need to pick a board edge and take a psychic test. Based on what causes the power to stop (A close combat for example, which a player can not draw line of site through), line of site is not needed to the board edge.

    Until, GW releases an official FAQ on the matter, and not just a tactic and there idea of how to use Space Marine Librarians, FotA would not need LOS...If there is an issue with an opponent, you can always just 4+ or make sure you local gaming community has there own set of unofficial FAQs to use.

    Just my 2 cents

  7. #6
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    the point on the table edge is not what is being targeted, that just dermines direction, therefore it does not need line of sight,

    This is further supported by the statements of what stops fury, these would pretty much stop Line of sight too, if you needed LOS to the table edge, you would not be able to shoot fury and have it stopped, therefore, again LOS is not needed
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Actually, it doesn't say target a board edge. It just says it moves to ANY board edge. That any is the important part. if it was blocked by LOS, then it couldn't hit any board edge, could it?

    And if you're going to use a librarian, especially with FOTA or better yet, FOD, just use tigerius in a drop pod. Drop him in, and win. you don't even need to field anything else.

    Another example of GW and their great rules writting.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

  9. #8
    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
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    Hmmm, this is interesting. I've only used this power once and I assumed I had to have LoS. ArchonAstaroth did point out that unless otherwise stated, psychic powers require LoS. FotA does not specify that the LoS requirement is negated (of course it doesn't specify that you do need LoS either). Then the BGB rule should stand. As for the point on the table edge, well all the powers description says is it moves in a straight line from the caster to any table edge (and is stopped by the afore mentioned stuff). I interpret that as needing at least one unit in LoS. But hey I'm not an expert on the rules so don't blast me

    EDIT: Oh it doesn't have a description like a weapon entry because it automatically hits at least once (therefore not needing a BS), it also hits with a specified strength and AP (spelled out in the description)
    Last edited by magnet_man; April 29th, 2006 at 20:04.
    Tim Wright

    "The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
    -John Gilmore

  10. #9
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnet_man
    Hmmm, this is interesting. I've only used this power once and I assumed I had to have LoS. ArchonAstaroth did point out that unless otherwise stated, psychic powers require LoS. FotA does not specify that the LoS requirement is negated (of course it doesn't specify that you do need LoS either). Then the BGB rule should stand. As for the point on the table edge, well all the powers description says is it moves in a straight line from the caster to any table edge (and is stopped by the afore mentioned stuff). I interpret that as needing at least one unit in LoS. But hey I'm not an expert on the rules so don't blast me
    none of us are experts here.

    but as to the LOS req, it is negated by the ANY board edge statement. If it required LOS, then it would just say board edge. But to be fair, I'd stop it in at if it was me, or only use it to hit one squad. Mind you, this is me, not the rules.

    Similar to the mind war working on ANY model. it's further stated to require LOS, but normal shooting rules don't let you target models.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

  11. #10
    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
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    Ah, once again the ambiguity of the word choices that GW employs when describing how things works. I can really see it working both ways. I know there are people who think it's clear cut one way or the other.

    I've taken to creating a list of ambiguous rules that I ask my opponent how they interpret. If we have a disagreement, we first consult another experienced player in the league and if that doesn't work we do a roll off.

    As for the rule about any point on any table edge, that word choice does seem to imply that you pick a point on a table edge and draw a line from the caster to that point regardless of LoS. However, to me that's not specific negation of the LoS rule from the BGB, just tells you specifically which units can be hit (so as to help when deciding whether a model in a unit is really in it's path if that model is on the edge of the unit).

    In the future I'm going to play it whatever way my opponent thinks is fair. I trust that he/she will be reasonable and won't short change me. After all we're both there to have fun.

    Good luck to both sides of the argument!
    Tim Wright

    "The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
    -John Gilmore

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