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First time I've asked a question on LibOnline, and I'm not sure this is the right Forum but...
What rules of engageent do most people play. When I got into this it was just with friends and I was thinking that it would be pretty easy going. However, there is a lot of pressure from one of the guys to play "weapon accurate".
I'm Space Marine (vanilla), and I'm new, so I don't have models with Heavy Bolters and Lascannons and I've got 1 guy w/ a Power Fist. Also, (stupid me) when I started building models I picked their weapons to make them look good because I wanted to... and also because I didn't know enough about the weapons when I started to make educated choices.
Further, most of the guys in my group have been around a while and have fully built out armies, and could field just about anything they want. In particular the guy who pushes this rule plays Eldar and I checked out the Codex the other day... he DOESNT have any weapon options! Not like my chaplain, where if I want a Plasma pistol I have to saw off a metal arm and make a conversion!
Ok, I'm done ranting.
I feel like this "weapon accurate" really puts me at a disadvantage and I'm just wondering if this is how most people play?
If by "Weapon Accurate" you mean "What you see is what you get" then it is a fair rule, and I play using it all the time. I admit, it does suck for the first while, as the List building, army buying, painting and conversions can be a tad overwhelming for the new player. But it'll pass as time goes on, and evetually you'll have enough parts to make all the conversions you want.
You just gotta give it time my friend:yes:
eah, it does get a tad frustrating at times for you, but think about it the other way around. If I am playing against you and avoiding what I think is a powerfist, then turns out that it isn't and this effects my game, it can get a bit frustrating. Or I am running towards a unit to assault and it turns out that instead of the flamers that the models have, they all have heavy bolters... I get shot up.
As Gandhi said, give it time, youll accumulate more gear as you go
But I call to God, and the LORD saves me.
I am unfortunatley a broke college student with a kid. Been playing for 4 or 5 months now. My force is relativley small. My friends and I allow each other to use empty bases to model missing units, this has the added benefit of letting us try out units before we actually buy them to make sure they are worth it. We're all laid back so it's not an issue and I'm clear about what everything is and my opponent makes sure to ask. I've got handy-dandy little sheet with me to always reference to make sure I'm not forgetting anything.
Now league games are different. I'm borrowing another players models since I don't have the required 2000 pts. And since it's not my army, my opponents are very forgiving when it comes to me saying, "...this dev squad has 4 las cannons, not 2 lascannons and 2 ML". I just try to pick models from my friends list that are close to what I actually chose in my FO chart (i.e. if it's a model is equipped with a HW, make sure I pick another model with a HW). We call this proxying and while a little frowned upon it is accepted as the players are always excited to have newbs around.
I feel your pain. I'd love to be able to afford the $500+ to flesh out the rest of my army. One tactic I'm using to reduce the cost is to make the arms magnetic. This way I can maximize the use of my squad and won't waste models for just having one weapon I use occasionly. I posted some stuff about it here (Magnetic Infantry).
As for your friend, he is technically right on the WYSIWG. Can't really argue with him except to say that on page 5 of the Big Green Book it has a nice golden rule "Just have fun".
If it is really an issue, maybe you can play smaller point games until you get enough money and/or time to get a larger army. Or borrow someone elses.
Good luck and welcome to the board and game!
Last edited by magnet_man; May 1st, 2006 at 12:38.
"The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
Honestly, depends on the person, but generally ROEs for WYSIWYG:
- You should model the weapon if there is a sprue/piece available for it
- Proxies/substiutions for non-competitive play are usually tolerated by most everyone so long as it doesn't get ridiculous. Meaning, you could reasonably ask, "Whenever you see an X weapon on this guy, count it as a Y weapon." (I often do this with my Grey Knight Incinerators counting as Psycannons. Darn GW charging extra for Psycannons). But don't go overboard. I'd say a max of 2 or 3 subs.
- For competitive (tourneys, etc) ASK! Generally though, it is WYSIWYG so be wary.
Typically, in my gaming group (before it was disbanded) the rule was WYSIWYG or Told.
That is, either your model is equipped as shown, or you would tell your opponent what equipment the model is carrying. This applies to vehicles too.
It's also handy to bring extra copies of your army list if you are having to proxy. There was one player who was notorious for not having an army list, and having his weapons on 'dail-a-weapon' mode (I need a flamer, no a heavy bolter, no a lascannon).
Finally, for competitive play (tournaments and the like), it's generally a WYSIWYG or bust situation. Though it wouldn't hurt to ask, and I've seen tourney officials play a blind eye to this.
Granted, it is frustrating. But as you play and enjoy the hobbie, you will find yourself accumulating bits from various kits. Then is isn't so hard to assemble a good representation of your list.
Until then, your opponents should try to remember how they got into the game and cut you a break. It's not very sporting to say "you can't have a lascannon because you don't own one" and then plop a land raider on the board.
First, welcome to LO.
Secondly, though it appears that your question has been well answered I'll share my thoughts.
Yes, generally What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get (WYSIWYG) is what most play groups will insist upon.
If a new player is just starting up and wants to get some games in with our group we will generally be forgiving and allow a proxy or two but not too much more and not for too long. There is an unspoken expectation that as time goes by we want to see the new player making an effort to purchase and use the appropriate model in a timely fashion. In other words, I'll let you play those 3 models as "armed with Lascannons" today, but by next week, at least one of those should actually be a Lascannon model. And within 3 weeks? No more Lascannon proxies.
Until you do have the proper models to put on the table the following suggestions may help.
First, see if another player would be willing to loan you the proper model for that game. This will make the game play much smoother as there will be no confusion as to what the proxy model is for. The second solution would be to have a clear way of marking a model so that it is clear which models are "armed with lascannons" for example. This way of marking could be a unique model that stands out from the rest of the squad such as painted, primed or unpainted or perhaps even twisting a short length of pipe-cleaner... This isn't a visually pretty solution, but it will be a strong visual cue to both you and your opponent as to which model is the proxy model and remind you that it has a different weapon.
[COLOR=DarkRedI got my tournament t-shirts at mathhammer.net[/COLOR]
First, thanks, everyone, for the feedback.Originally Posted by Jon23516
I guess it is mostly my issue, but when I play with the guy who DOES allow weapon proxies, he gets a copy of my roster and I tell him... I'm not fielding any flamers. All my guys on the board with Flamers actually have <whatever>. I call it "weapon proxy by type".
As for making progress, I have a whole pile of regular marines, and maybe I'm being silly, but I don't want to buy any more models until I can field all my current units fully painted. I don't mind when other people field unpainted units, but I hate doing it myself. I'm sitting here with 8 marines in progress and another 6ish to paint and then I'll feel OK about buying more guys. And I can't make myself speed paint so I'm averaging about 5hrs per model.
Take my desire to only field painted models and throw in the fact that I'm married and only get to paint about 6hrs a week and expanding my army is a very slow process. I've played 3 sessions over 3 months and I've been using (pretty much) the same roster. The only change is the number of painted units each time.
Oh, and I forgot to mention I am the only SpaceMarine player in our group, so nobody can lend me models.
Welcome to the hobby snazzed. As stated WYSIWYG is pretty standard but small numbers of proxies are almost always accepted in non tournament games. You're going to come up against all kinds of player types, and you don't have to play them all. If you know a game will be frustrating against a certain person, don't play them and politely explain why: "I don't think I will enjoy this match against your tanks because I only have one weapon that can touch it and it only glances on a 6. I'll pass.". Then offer an alternative match at 500 points. Low point games favour troop heavy lists.
Flamers are very easy to convert to meltaguns, basically just clip off and mount the canister laterally above the trigger.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
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