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  1. #1
    Senior Member Jhagadurn's Avatar
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    Greater Daemons?

    Howdy guys,

    My friend has just decided that it woudl be cool to run a greater daemon of Korn. Now, As a guard player, this is one of the last things I want, so I'm looking for anyway to get around playing against it.

    so,

    Are Greater Daemons Tournament Legal?

    Are they considered Special Characters?

    TSg.t Zakarius Clay
    142nd Cadian, Stationed Planet Skyfall B
    4th Brigade, 1st Battalion, 1st Co.
    'The Pathfinders', Drop Team - 6


    Pssst.... give me kudos....

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhagadurn
    Howdy guys,

    My friend has just decided that it woudl be cool to run a greater daemon of Korn. Now, As a guard player, this is one of the last things I want, so I'm looking for anyway to get around playing against it.

    so,

    Are Greater Daemons Tournament Legal?

    Are they considered Special Characters?
    Yes
    No...I don't think so anyways.

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Ostsol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhagadurn
    Are they considered Special Characters?
    I'm quite sure they aren't. They're in the HQ section of the codex, after all. If they were Special Characters they'd probably be nearer to their respective Book of Chaos, where the other Special Characters are.
    Why do the survivors remain anonymous -- as if cursed -- while the dead are revered? Why do we cling to what we lose while we ignore what we still hold?
    Name none of the fallen, for they stood in our place, and stand there still in each moment of our lives.

    --Duiker, "Deadhouse Gates"

    -Ostsol

  5. #4
    Senior Member Jhagadurn's Avatar
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    so, I have no good reason to not play him? I think I'll just start selling my 40k stuff now... I hate stupid units like that in this game. THat's why I play guard, it all sucks, it is how you use it together.... I hate stupid Chaos crap.
    TSg.t Zakarius Clay
    142nd Cadian, Stationed Planet Skyfall B
    4th Brigade, 1st Battalion, 1st Co.
    'The Pathfinders', Drop Team - 6


    Pssst.... give me kudos....

  6. #5
    Eternal Crusader Helbrecht's Avatar
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    Hey man don't start hating on the game there are ways to be any unit in the game. You're guard you can have a Sh1t load of heavy weapons! Tool up on lascannons and shoot the hell out of it! Look at is a challenge and you'll enjoy the hobby a lot more. Hope you reconsider selling your stuff.
    Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x

  7. #6
    Son of LO mEGALOMANIAC's Avatar
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    Seriously, consider the amount of guns you get in return for the points he spent on the Daemon. The Guard is all about concentrated fire!

    There are a few infuriating units in the game, sure, but none that strike me as straight-up broken.

    Absloute worst-case scenario? Take an allied unit of Grey Knight Terminators or something. They're fairly good at killing Daemons. But you'd be spending more points on that then you would on a bunch of heavy/special weapons that would do the same trick.

    And don't forget sportsmanship. If you absolutely hate those things, ask your friend to not take one, or at least not always take one. Most players will cooperate, as long as you're friendly about it.

  8. #7
    Pure Venom. Lordofchange's Avatar
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    I'm sure with the 160 - 205 points he's going to be paying for his greater daemon you can fit a good few plasma guns or lascannons in - enough to make the daemon's four wounds seem paltry. The daemons are certainly not unbalanced - if anything some of them are too many points, and just because they're designed in an area of the game your army doesn't excel in (combat) does not mean they're "overpowered stupid chaos crap". It's just something you have to deal with. Think about how an ork player feels if they're faced with your hordes of lasguns, and they only have foot troops - surely they'll think your army is stupid and overpowered because it really exploits their weakness.

    The thing is, in the game there are certain units that you won't be able to instantly destroy, and you might have to actually WORK to beat. But don't think that you'll just be able to kill everything automatically - 40k doesn't work that way, and if you're looking for a game that does then, yeah, maybe you should just stop model wargaming altogether as there are no games where you don't have to worry about a small amount of tactics.

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  9. #8
    Senior Member Jhagadurn's Avatar
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    now guys, I wouldn't just sell all of my stuff, that was sarcasm.... I have spent over 2000 of my hard earned green-backs in this game, way to much to just stop. Naw, but I just don't like Chaos, I don't like the idea of all of the sorcery, at all in this game. My Guard army is finished, and has a fair ammount of heavy weapons, enough that I could take out the Greater Daemon. But it is just a pain in the arse.

    My other army that I am working on right now is a Ravenwing army, which is just for theme. Actually all of my armies are just for theme, as I suck really badly at this game. I know tactics I think, I read war novels and tactical analysis books for fun, but for some reason, I just can't seem to get my guys to do what I want. I think I have a problem with the want for heavy weapons that are mobile. In guard, I only have stationary heavy weapons, and in ravenwing I have mobile medium-heavy weapons. I'm still working on using both.

    But yeah, my current warhammer 40k record for both of my armies is 2/6/11.... if that hasn't turned me off from the game, nothing will. I just get frustrated with the scorcery rules, and daemons and stuff..... oh well.

    So, since Ravenwing seems to be impossible to win with currently, besides the expected tactic of storming one side of the board, what are other ways that I could work with a ravenwing army?
    TSg.t Zakarius Clay
    142nd Cadian, Stationed Planet Skyfall B
    4th Brigade, 1st Battalion, 1st Co.
    'The Pathfinders', Drop Team - 6


    Pssst.... give me kudos....

  10. #9
    LO Zealot Grey's Avatar
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    The best way to deal with the Bloodthirster with IG from the mouth of someone who plays both guard and Chaos.

    Ie: me.

    Consider the Bloodthirsters disadvantages:

    1. He's a monstrous creature so may not hide in squads and can be shot at without a LD even if he's not the nearest enemy model.

    2. He's a ton of points, especially when you consider the aspiring champion that he killed coming out of.

    3. A Bloodthirster must always assault...

    Page 23 of the CSM codex.

    This means that you bait him with a sacrificial squad of conscripts which he will butcher due to:

    4. Overly dangerous in hth combat due to many attacks, double strength daemonic visage and counting as 10 models due to being monstrous, leading him to typically break your squad on the turn that he charges. Sometimes having a bad LD on your guard is a good thing.

    This leaves him in the open to be shot at by most likely the majority of your army provided you follow my most important rule for playing guard against a hth focused list.

    7" distance between all your squads.

    This way he can never just continue on into another squad without being shot at.

    5. He suffers from instability every turn if you kill the daemonhost before he manifests. Like say, by shooting the heck out of his squad.



    The game should go like this.

    1. CSM army advances whilst guard shoots at them.

    2. If you can kill the aspiring champion that contains the bloodthirster first great, but if not, no big deal.

    3. Bloodthirster manifests and charges nearest squad which will hopefully be conscripts, but regular guard is fine too really.

    4. Bloodthirster breaks squad on charge leaving him in the open.

    5. Bloodthirster gets shot with everything including the kitchen sink.

    6. Bloodthirster is either dead or must charge nearest squad.

    7. Repeat 4-6 as necessary.

    Honestly, unless you typically take a tank heavy guard list a Bloodthirster shouldn't be a big deal to you. He should almost never kill enough to make up for his point cost provided you don't give him juicy points high targets.

    A tank heavy IG list can be in trouble from a bloodthirster as he is quite good at cracking open vehicles.
    Last edited by Grey; May 4th, 2006 at 05:05.
    "No one has a monopoly on wisdom."-S.W.G.

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  11. #10
    Senior Member Carot's Avatar
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    I totally agree with grey on this.

    And I also have to deal with a Bloodthirster every Friday myself, and Khorne hates guns, all guns.

    That spacing bit is dead on, you need good spacing to deal with Greater Deamons, and giant maxed out Daemon princes too (but that's another story). I try for a 10" buffer myself.

    If you really want to try to deal with him in CC, try a tricked out Inquisitor joining a unit, or maybe just some Grey knights. They exist solely for that purpose after all.

    :ninja:
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