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Thread: Rules Quiz....

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    Senior Member Jhagadurn's Avatar
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    Rules Quiz....

    Howdy guys,
    Well, it is looking like my local store is going to hire me, as the warhammer games master, or whatever you want to call it. So, As part of that, i need to have an excellent grip on the rules. So, I was wondering, if you guys wouldn't mind asking me some of the tougher questions on rules, so that I could either have the answers on hand if they come up, or start to formulate some house rules. Please, if you have the time, drop a few up here, I'll check every few hours. They can be codex specific, rules interpretation, and even fantasy rules.... Please, I'm just trying to hone myself.

    Thanks!

    TSg.t Zakarius Clay
    142nd Cadian, Stationed Planet Skyfall B
    4th Brigade, 1st Battalion, 1st Co.
    'The Pathfinders', Drop Team - 6


    Pssst.... give me kudos....

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    If your playing a 3-4 way battle and person a and b are in combat can person c shoot in combat? If so what are the rules that you would follow?*I have a good house rule for this I just wanna see if you have a good way to do it or not*

    Can a wartrukk (rhino) block LOS to a battlewagon (land raider) or not?

    Can midwar be used to target a being that is in close combat?

    What's your take on powefists/powerklaws/witchblade/etc. versus a monolith, do they get to double their strength or not?

    Ah more to come later.

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    Member cheese58's Avatar
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    Is the Holy Orb of Antioch a blast weapon? Does it hit people partially under the template automatically, or on a 4+?

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    Ender of Threads Wraith's Avatar
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    If you have 2 Terminator squads, one with a Chaplain, Typhus, 2 Daemon Princes, a Hive Tyrant with Tyrant Guards, a Grey Knight Grand Master with Termie Retinue, some Dark Eldar Wyches and Commander Farsight with a bodyguard, half of whom have just charged through cover into combat with the rest, how long does it take before you just give up on it and walk away?:wacko: :lol:

    .... OK, so maybe that's a little bit extreme... It did happen to me once in a GW Mega Battle, though. (be ready for anything!) Probably took a good half hour just to figure out who was doing what to whom and when they were doing it!

    On a slightly more sane note, most of the issues that crop up in games around here are things like the Mixed armour/toughness/skill rules, multiple combats with several different weapon skills and/or special rules, and similar. I'd also make sure you've got a firm grip on things like Deployment order, escalation, Victory points, Dusk and Dawn, Concealment, aNight Fight and Margin of Victory Rules. Lots of times games usually end up being the same old "just kill everything" style, so some of those mission special rules get awfully rusty from disuse.
    We've got plenty of youth... How about a fountain of smart?


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    Senior Member Jhagadurn's Avatar
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    cool guys thanks for the responses. As Zombie killer asked, what are my rules for multiple player combats and shooting into them?

    1. You can shoot into the combats, and roughly figure out a ration of 6ths for the comatants. So for example, if there are 8 gaunts and 4 space marines in combat, you will hit gaunts 2:3 of the time, and space marines 1:3 of the time. SO then you role a die, for randomization, a 3,4,5,6 will hit the gaunts, a 1,2 will hit the space marines. That way, you can't just sniper your enemies commander, if it looks like he will win the combat.

    ok your next question.... the rhino blocking LOS to land raider - yes, it does, as all vehicles unless they are skimmers are considered size 3. Now surely, if you can see enough of the land raider to call it obscured that works, but yes, a sideways rhino can block line of sight to a battle wagon or land raider front he front (since the land raider is wider than the rhino is)

    Next one....
    psycic attacks count as shooting attacks, so no, they cannont fire into close combat. And, I'm going to go ahead and say that mind war is a psycic attack.

    Last one...
    Monoliths simply say that their armor value cannot be decreased and that you can never get 2d6 penetration against them. So yes, in the case of powerfist/thunderhammer/powerclaw they get double strength, adn in the case of witchblade, triple strength.



    THanks guys! keep them coming!
    TSg.t Zakarius Clay
    142nd Cadian, Stationed Planet Skyfall B
    4th Brigade, 1st Battalion, 1st Co.
    'The Pathfinders', Drop Team - 6


    Pssst.... give me kudos....

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    Member Lord Commander Thule's Avatar
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    Two Dark Eldar players are fighting one another... they both choose "always strike first" for their combat drugs.

    GO.

    and just to make it a bit more interesting... Dark eldar vs. Ork bikes...
    "Honor and Vengeance! For The Emperor, on the last day!

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    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhagadurn
    cool guys thanks for the responses. As Zombie killer asked, what are my rules for multiple player combats and shooting into them?

    1. You can shoot into the combats, and roughly figure out a ration of 6ths for the comatants. So for example, if there are 8 gaunts and 4 space marines in combat, you will hit gaunts 2:3 of the time, and space marines 1:3 of the time. SO then you role a die, for randomization, a 3,4,5,6 will hit the gaunts, a 1,2 will hit the space marines. That way, you can't just sniper your enemies commander, if it looks like he will win the combat.
    bad idea... this breaks the rules. always best to play 1 on 1 or side vs side as anything else skews the game in favor of shooting armies way tooooooo much.
    ok your next question.... the rhino blocking LOS to land raider - yes, it does, as all vehicles unless they are skimmers are considered size 3. Now surely, if you can see enough of the land raider to call it obscured that works, but yes, a sideways rhino can block line of sight to a battle wagon or land raider front he front (since the land raider is wider than the rhino is)
    wrong somewhat. for seeing over vehicles and MCs and terrain always use MEV. Since the LR is bigger, is can always be seen, but yes, it can get obscured status. Only time you use size classes is shooting over/past area terrain and CC.

    Next one....
    psycic attacks count as shooting attacks, so no, they cannont fire into close combat. And, I'm going to go ahead and say that mind war is a psycic attack.
    actual answer is correct, rules ref in eldar faq along with SMF rules downgrading ALL hits, no matter the source (CC or ap1)
    Last one...
    Monoliths simply say that their armor value cannot be decreased and that you can never get 2d6 penetration against them. So yes, in the case of powerfist/thunderhammer/powerclaw they get double strength, adn in the case of witchblade, triple strength.
    nope. you must use UNAUGMENTED strength vs the monolith, so no @S for powerfists, no 3X for witch blades.


    Next question-Dark eldar transport moves less than 12, troops wish to assault out. Can they fleet or not after disembarking?

    Carnifex is in CC with 2 scarrab swarms-scarrabs deal 2 wounds to the carnifex, fex deals one to the scarrabs instakilling it, who wins combat?


    edited in


    Oh, and name the only 3 "shooting" type weapons/abilities that allow you to snipe specific models.
    Last edited by tarzen; June 12th, 2006 at 07:11.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

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    Senior Member Jhagadurn's Avatar
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    ok, tozen, I got some comments/questions for you:

    in a 3 way game btw, that is in my opinion the best way to day it.

    ok, tell me wher ein the rule book it says that a rhino is some how not level 3 in terms of line of sight? Vehicles always block line of sight through themselves unless they are skimmers.

    Second off, I couldn't understand what the heck you where talking about with the mind war comment.

    third, I was pretty sure the living metal special rule for necrons says 'no extra dice, no lance weapons' not use unaugmented strength..... Clarify please.

    Now for the QUESTIONS::

    1. two dark eldar squads in combat, with combat drugs of always' strike first on..... who goes first:

    They strike simultaniously

    2. A dark eldar transport moves 12" and disembarks. Cant he troops fleet?

    Ok, I don't have my rulebook with me, but I'm pretty sure no, as I don't think that you can disembark after moving 12 or more inches.... but that's a Wild Ass Guess (WAG)


    3. Last one.... Carnifex wins, because altough the model was instantly killed, it still suffered 3 wounds... but again, this is a WAG.

    4. ok this is really the last one... and I'll have to check on this one again, becuase I don't have my rule book, but 3 shooting weapons that allow you to snipe......
    Exitus rifle, anything that targets only psykers (psyker sniping), and let me think... well, I don't know a type, but if you angle yourself around a building so that you can only see certain models, you can kind of snipe like that...


    PS..... Guys I'm not trying to be confrontational, just trying to hone and sharpen my hold of the rules.
    TSg.t Zakarius Clay
    142nd Cadian, Stationed Planet Skyfall B
    4th Brigade, 1st Battalion, 1st Co.
    'The Pathfinders', Drop Team - 6


    Pssst.... give me kudos....

  10. #9
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhagadurn
    ok, tarzen, I got some comments/questions for you:

    in a 3 way game btw, that is in my opinion the best way to day it.
    But again, it skews the results of the game to shooty lists. My CC troops don't get any protection while in cc, which normallymakes them untargetable. Again, you are better off sticking with the idea of 2 sides...but proceed this way if you wish. One person always gets gangbanged and gets shot to pieces by the other two.
    ok, tell me wher ein the rule book it says that a rhino is some how not level 3 in terms of line of sight? Vehicles always block line of sight through themselves unless they are skimmers.
    bgb p 20
    Quote Originally Posted by BGB p 20
    The only time you don't use model eye view is when you want to draw LOS into or past area terrain or an ongoing assault combat.
    ....
    all vehicles, vehicle wrecks, MC, and artillary friend or foe block LOS. A line of sight can still be drawn over or past such models, but not through them.Use a models eye view to determine if you can see past them
    Second off, I couldn't understand what the heck you where talking about with the mind war comment.
    letting you know you were correct and where to find that specific rule as it is written by GW. Then added in the SMF rules ref that applies to CC hits and ap1 shots so you'd know where to find that if you ever needed them.
    third, I was pretty sure the living metal special rule for necrons says 'no extra dice, no lance weapons' not use unaugmented strength..... Clarify please.
    necron codex and errata. Unaugmented strength only, and one die. Only exception is the turbo penetrator round.

    Now for the QUESTIONS::

    1. two dark eldar squads in combat, with combat drugs of always' strike first on..... who goes first:

    They strike simultaniously
    yup, as clarified in the faq IIRC.
    2. A dark eldar transport moves 12" and disembarks. Cant he troops fleet?

    Ok, I don't have my rulebook with me, but I'm pretty sure no, as I don't think that you can disembark after moving 12 or more inches.... but that's a Wild Ass Guess (WAG)
    By the rules, they cannot fleet after disembarking. Since it is an open topped vehicle they can still assault. Problem you'll find here is that DE used to be able to move, and fleet out, but the rules for disembarking say no movement (other than the assault, which it makes a special rule for).

    3. Last one.... Carnifex wins, because altough the model was instantly killed, it still suffered 3 wounds... but again, this is a WAG.
    good guess, and most would agree but this is wrong. Instakill wounds only count as the number of wounds inflicted. While he killed a whole base worth 3 wounds, he did in fact only inflict 1 wound, thus carni loses combat. Further rules for this are the instant death section, who won combat, and forceweapon entry.
    4. ok this is really the last one... and I'll have to check on this one again, becuase I don't have my rule book, but 3 shooting weapons that allow you to snipe......
    Exitus rifle, anything that targets only psykers (psyker sniping), and let me think... well, I don't know a type, but if you angle yourself around a building so that you can only see certain models, you can kind of snipe like that...
    vindicare's shooting, monolith with the ordinance, and mind war. While you can angle vehicles and troops (mcs) such that you can only see one model, the weapons I listed are the only I can think of that allow you to snipe out of squads without worrying about LOS.
    PS..... Guys I'm not trying to be confrontational, just trying to hone and sharpen my hold of the rules.
    No worries, taht's why we are asking the questions we are.

    How about this one....

    squad of 5 eldar guardians have a warlock, and are attached to a farseer (7 models total).
    The squad take 2 bolter wounds, 2 plasma wounds, 5 lasguns, and a lascannon wound from the same squad of shooting.
    How do you resolve this (who gets saves, and how many).
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

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    Thought this thread might be locked because it isn't a rules question, but since Tarzen is entertaining it why not?

    But rather than ask questions, I will say this. If you will be a rule authority, I suggest you do the following:

    - Have a copy of the BGB
    - Have a copy (or at least one readily handy) of EVERY in-use codex. Yes, it is costly, but if someone says "show me in the book" you have it on hand.
    - Have a copy of every FAQ (at least these are free)
    - Have a copy of some obscure pubs. Fortunately most of these are free either on the UK/US websites (I've listed below where to find it if it isn't on both). For example:
    -- Armored Company Rules (UK)
    -- Special Chars not in a Codex (UK)
    -- Catachan Codex (It's now available free for download since they don't publish it anymore)

    Understand that some rule issues will never be fully be resolved. The biggest I can think of is the PowerFist/Monolith thing. There are those in both camps who would bet their first child that the other side is wrong. Another is whether Drop Pods count as Immobilized for the destruction table and Victory Points. I would just make aware to those about to play where it will be an issue that this is your interpretation and for them to decide for themselves.

    As for common issues that come up, here is what I've noticed comes up "a lot"
    - The difference between wounds and models in multi-wound squads for taking morale tests and cc resolution (who won) and cc modifiers (below 50%)
    - How far vehicles can move/shoot and what weapons they can shoot (including skimmers, and also Spirit of the Machine).
    - Vehicles/walkers moving in difficult terrain. How far, how many dice they roll, etc.
    - How to do assaulting when there's more than 1 target involved
    - Terrain (LOS issues, area vs. non-area, etc)
    - The Chaos SM Codex (that thing is just plain confusing at times. Took many people [including me] to really get a handle on it)
    - Rallying (when they can, can't, if they can move, shoot, fleet, etc)
    - What happens to riders when a vehicle is penetrated or is destroyed,
    - Independent Chars

    Ok, maybe every rule comes up "a lot" :w00t:

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