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    Los

    LOS to a Defiler.....to the leg or the hull? To the leg...Hull Down or out of sight?


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    Illustrator Extraordinair Adrian MalSeraph's Avatar
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    One, I am confused by your post. Please clarify.

    I assume that one would have to hit the main body for the shot to count. So draw to that.

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    Senior Member Romulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davesnothereman
    LOS to a Defiler.....to the leg or the hull? To the leg...Hull Down or out of sight?
    Following comments may not follow the rulebook 100%...because the rulebook is vague on your question.

    We play by the 50% rule......If you can see over 50% of the Tank it is fully visible. If you can see less than 50% of the tank then its hull down.

    So, seeing ONE leg is "Hull Down" in our games.

    To make things worse......is when you can see only small parts, a weapon sticking out, the bottom of a defiler leg or something like that. Then we use the 15% TO 50% RULE!(we call it the commonsense rule) LOL This way if you see the Tip of a gun or small part of the model around a wall it doesn't count as a targetable. The rules just don't say anything about those circumstances. We just use an agreeable Logic to determine if the vehicle can be hit.
    Last edited by Romulus; July 10th, 2006 at 19:45.
    40K: Tyranid, Necron, Space Wolves
    Fantasy: Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarves

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    Adrian....To clarify...in a recent game I was watching, an eldar player targeted a defiler. The defiler was behind a bunch of large columns. The main body and everything was not visable except for the left front leg. It was determined to be "targetable" because LOS could be drawn. The defiler was given "Hull down status".

    Defilers don't have bases so you can't measure to the base to target it (like a dread). Tanks you actually have to target to a portion of the hull....right?
    So which is it? Can you draw LOS to a leg and blast away or do you "need" to see the hull.

    Romulus....one leg is hull down in your games? Ouch. So a whole sponson hanging out of cover means you could go boom. Basilisk hiding behind a lower hill shows a bunch of earthshaker. Just about as much as a leg. Your giving it hull down?

    In friendly games at the house everything is usually cool, but when I roll at the store....rules lawyers get unfriendly pretty fast when they can't get off all their shots.

    The main reason I'm asking is because the leg position on the defiler I will finish soon could be a big issue. I will always indirect fire so I may need to convert a little to make a smaller imprint. Or I could make some BIGGER cover.

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    Senior Member Romulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davesnothereman
    Adrian....To clarify...in a recent game I was watching, an eldar player targeted a defiler. The defiler was behind a bunch of large columns. The main body and everything was not visable except for the left front leg. It was determined to be "targetable" because LOS could be drawn. The defiler was given "Hull down status".

    Defilers don't have bases so you can't measure to the base to target it (like a dread). Tanks you actually have to target to a portion of the hull....right?
    So which is it? Can you draw LOS to a leg and blast away or do you "need" to see the hull.

    Romulus....one leg is hull down in your games? Ouch. So a whole sponson hanging out of cover means you could go boom. Basilisk hiding behind a lower hill shows a bunch of earthshaker. Just about as much as a leg. Your giving it hull down?

    In friendly games at the house everything is usually cool, but when I roll at the store....rules lawyers get unfriendly pretty fast when they can't get off all their shots.

    The main reason I'm asking is because the leg position on the defiler I will finish soon could be a big issue. I will always indirect fire so I may need to convert a little to make a smaller imprint. Or I could make some BIGGER cover.
    Well, I agree that one leg seems like a little bit. BUT, it is one BIG leg and nearly 25% of the model is one leg on a Defiler! lol We more closely follow the "Logical" rule. A tip of the leg = no. Half the leg = no. All the leg plus some hull where is attaches = yes/hull down. Our group is usually quite friendly and we want to have a good time. Winning is key, but we try to keep it realistic.

    I've had players try to pull things like that......i see the tip of your venom cannon, your scathing talon is visble, I see his tail, etc. Those players have hard times finding opponents and get no invites to play at home (my garage with two nice tables all set up).
    40K: Tyranid, Necron, Space Wolves
    Fantasy: Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarves

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    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Yeah, bgb p 21-LOS must be drawn to the "body " of the model, p 69 about obscured, and most importantly p 6 "for models without a base (usually vehicles) use the model's hull/MAIN BODY instead.
    Done and done.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

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    Senior Member Romulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarzen
    Yeah, bgb p 21-LOS must be drawn to the "body " of the model, p 69 about obscured, and most importantly p 6 "for models without a base (usually vehicles) use the model's hull/MAIN BODY instead.
    Done and done.
    What do you do in your game club if the LOS is to a spot on the hull is the size of the eraser on a pencil? or something of the sort.....ie very small part of the hull.
    40K: Tyranid, Necron, Space Wolves
    Fantasy: Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarves

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    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romulus
    What do you do in your game club if the LOS is to a spot on the hull is the size of the eraser on a pencil? or something of the sort.....ie very small part of the hull.
    obscured target. All you need to do is see the hull. be it the size of this period . or the anything up to 50%. Hull down(which is now)/obscured target.

    But we usually just use the legs of the defiler as the size of the base. Mind you, if you haven't talked this out pregame, d6 or play by the rule that does tell you to use the main body.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

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    Done. Thanks.

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