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Is there any rule that says a jump pack model may not get in a transport (like a Chaplain with a jump pack)?
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There used to be a direct reference to Marines with jump packs not being able to use transports, but it is not in the new codex, the thing is though that jump pack marines have no access to transports in its codex entry, so any character joining them (chaplain) would not have access to a transport.Originally Posted by magnet_man
The thing is though if a jump pack equiped Chaplain joined a normal Marine tactical unit its movement is restricted to the speed of the slowest member of the unit (6"), if this allows access to a transport is a different matter and one I have no clear answer to, the fact that jump pack equiped Marines have no access to transports would indicate the answer is in fact no; but I suppose this is open to argument because the Chaplain has had his movement restricted due to joining the tacical unit.
Another thing is the entries for Rhino's, Razorbacks, Landraiders and Crusaders specify Space Marines in power armour or terminators, no reference is made to jump packs which I believe refuses any model with a jumpack the option of using a transport.
I do not think Jump Infantry would be able to use a transport.
1.) Pg. 55 of the BGB under 'Jump Infantry' mentions no special restrictions to using transports.
2.) However, pg. 62 of the BGB under 'Passenger Capacity' states that: 'Only Infantry may embark in transports unless the transporting vehicle's rules state otherwise.'
3.) Pg. 55 of the BGB under Jump Infantry states that: 'This unit type behaves differently on the battlefield than a normal infantry unit .'
Therefore, 'Jump Infantry' are not the same as 'Infantry', and thus, cannot use a transport unless stated otherwise in the transporting vehicle's rules.
I do not think an IC equipped with a jump pack is in fact 'Jump Infantry.' The Codex: Space Marines entry for Jump Packs in the armoury (page 24) states that: 'Models equipped with jump packs move as jump infantry.'
Therefore, the only thing affected is their movement, not their restrictions on transports.
I would have no problem if I faced an opponent who did this (although, I must ask, why would you?) however, if I tried to do this, I would explain my case to my opponent and judge by his reaction whether or not I should be allowed to.
Gareth is the person I try to impress when I convert and paint.
No the movement phase defines all units movement, so the only way a jump pack equipped unit can move in a movement phase is as jump infantry, either 12" jump pack move or a normal 6" move, jump infantry has no option to take a transport in the movement phase and chaplains with a jump pack are classed as jump infantry for movement purposes within the movement phase.Originally Posted by Astantia
Thats why it says 'move as jump infantry' jump infantry cannot MOVE in a vehicle thats the restriction on transports, its the movement phase that is important because the jump pack only affects the movement phase, the assault phase is carried out on foot as infantry.
A vehicle is used in the movement phase and a Chaplain with jump pack moves as jump infantry within the movement phase.
You actually answered my question about the Chaplain joining an infantry unit, because he still has the jump pack he can move 6" (which is what he would have to do to match the Marine squads movement rate) but is still classed as jump infantry, in fact the Chaplain would stop the Marine tactical squad from utilising a transport.
The reason for taking Marines or characters with jump packs in transports is this, put a 9 man squad and a chaplian with jump packs in a rhino, you move the rhino 12" and the unit is protected, next turn the unit disembarks it can move 12" and assault if in range, so you have moved your marines up the field nicely protected and with an 18" deployment, 12" protected move, 12" jump move thats 38" inches of a normal board covered and all in safety.
Quite an advantage for the Marines (a turn in a vehicles better than being exposed).
Thats why jump pack troops cannot take transports, and if the board is bigger the player would just keep the marines inside the transport for a few turns which again is a massive advantage for the expensive marines because of the protection offered by the vehicle.
Now I would have a problem with that, wouldn't you, that jump pack offers a nice 12" move when they leave a vehicle and the vehicle offers protection, to powerful a combination for me.
riki, as far as I can tell this has nothing with "having a problem with something" but instead going to figure out what can and can't be done with the rules.
GW has a habit of wording things poorly. It's safe to assume, though, that what they meant was that things equipped with Jump Packs and equivalents can't be inside transports. I'm sure we can all agree on that, regardless of the poor wording in both codex and rulebook. We've dealth with GW long enough to realise this. :yes:
Good analysis, but flawed. For instance, Cavalry is not the same as Infantry, yet may still use a Transport in some instances.Therefore, 'Jump Infantry' are not the same as 'Infantry', and thus, cannot use a transport unless stated otherwise in the transporting vehicle's rules.
This is one of those "You know it was intended to be this way, so just because we didn't specifically state it anywhere, try to use common sense and play it that way, please" things that GW likes to sneak into their books. It's a bad business practice IMO, but something that the creators of 40K probably won't ever change.
Lost I was directly referring to Astantia saying she would have no problem with someone using a Chaplain in a transport and showing how it can be abused. I am also showing what can and cannot be done with the rules, but I am also showing how the rules can be used to gain an unfair unintended advantage which Astantia seemed to have missed.Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis
Cal your missing the one important thing here, the movement phase, yes a cavalry unit can use a transport in some instances because they move as infantry in the movement phase but have the option to fleet, obviously if they are in a transport they do not fleet. They are classed as infantry, jump pack equipped units are not classed as infantry for the purposes of movement, so they canot use a transport because in the movement phase they are not classed as infantry they are jump infantry.
So in effect Astantia is correct, though the details needed clarifying.
Anyway I think we have all agreed its a case of unclear rules AGAIN.
No, they're not infantry. Check page 8 and 9 of the BGB. You'll see that they're two completely different things. This is why Beasts/Cavalry don't deploy in Escalation missions.Originally Posted by rikimaru
And what if I elected to simply move my Jump Infantry as normal infantry during the movement phase? Would he then be allowed to embark the transport?
The phase doesn't mean anything. For instance, Jet Packs move only six inches in the Movement phase, yet shouldn't be/aren't allowed to be transported.