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when a squad loses an assault, why cant they elect to fall back? e.g fail there leadership roll voluntarily....the sweeping advance still takes place, and the unit is broken/destroyed.
am i missing something obvious? As it would make sence if the unit had no chance of winning the combat...
Its was designed to stop units like marines that regroup automatically from abusing the rule.
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There was no rule for this in the 3rd edition rules either rather a bit in the back that talked about the option of using this.... As was stated though it can make powerful units a bit too good. Personally i have no problem with it being used in a no win situation say a squad of space marines that can't hurt a wraithlord in that case i would say yes. But not used everysingle time.
Because if you could voluntarily fall back, what would stop you from disengaging from my assault units, regrouping, and then blasting them with your Rapid Firing Plasma Guns? It'd make shooty armies far more powerful.Originally Posted by darqueknight
Also, while you may be able to see stats and compare your chances of killing something, your troops don't know they can't hurt something. All they know is that a bad guy is amidst their ranks and they're too close to shoot it, so they have to hack away at it. After all, that other Carnifex was eventually killed with Chainswords - so why couldn't this one? (Comparing T6 versus T7 Carnies)
I second that , Units with lots of shooting or a combination of that and assualt could fall back shoot and charge again. way to much power.Originally Posted by Caluin
Because if you could voluntarily fall back, what would stop you from disengaging from my assault units, regrouping, and then blasting them with your Rapid Firing Plasma Guns? It'd make shooty armies far more powerful.
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Ok quick question.
Tau Ethereals if they are in line of sight of a unit can allow them to re roll their ldr say for Morale Checks from an assault loss. Are they required to re roll or can they opt to fail it?
Its been used against me a few times now where the Tau will opt to not take the re roll so they can fail and leave my guys out in the open to get shot at.
the re-roll is an option, if they want to fail they dont have to re-roll (but they can if they succeded on the first roll and are trying to fail)
Agreed, if you could just leave combat it would make lots of units way more powerful, not just shooty. Take for example Chaos Raptors with the "Hit and Run" rule. I use this at the end of my opponents turn. Jump out of assault, now on my turn, I move up, shoot them again and assault them again, with all my extra attacks and init bonus.
I think allowing units to just leave combat would sway balance a lot, in a bad way. And I think the fact that there is a special rule "Hit and Run" means they intended for units to NOT just leave combat.
Look at the rule for Khorne Berzerkers. It says if they rage, they have to assault the nearest enemy, even if they have no chance at hurting it. Like someone above said, troops don't know the stats, they just know there is an enemy nearby.
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I would disagree that troops would not know the toughness of their enemies. Ok, perhaps something like a Carnifex with options, they may not, however I think units would be briefed before going into the field. After all, thats why you don't charge a Preditor or a Hammerhead... ok, my knife ain't gonna cut THAT!
I think the fact you can't disengage comes more from the idea that you are right in close fighting it out... if you try to disengage you open yourself to attack... leading to the sweeping advance.
ahhh, but it gets you another 6" movement=) That and I really think gw carried too many 2nd edition ideas into the newer rules without actually bringing any of the rules. In second ed, you could roll 7s to wound, it was a a 6 and a 4+ IIRC. So fighting a WL in hth with a marine was actually a possible win outcome for the marines...Originally Posted by snazzedagreed 100%. if you turn your back on your enemy, only bad things will happen.I think the fact you can't disengage comes more from the idea that you are right in close fighting it out... if you try to disengage you open yourself to attack... leading to the sweeping advance.
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