Am I right to be annoyed by this or not? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Am I right to be annoyed by this or not?

    Been playing with a buddy of mine for several months now. We recently played a 1000 point battle.

    I've always used my custom chapter of marines. I occasionally try new force configurations or weapons choices but it always use the same traits for my marines.

    He's almost always played Eldar, specifically Ulthewe. The last battle we played he said he was going to be doing something a little different and I said "Okay, try it and see how it works." The 'something different' was fielding an Iyanden army instead.

    I was rather unhappy that he brought a completely different army to the table then what he normally does without letting me know. I told him that while it was a good game and congrats on his win, switching his armies on me was not a nice thing to do. I compared that to declaring I was using Space Wolf rules instead or changing my traits at the last second or bringing my marines and then throwing down a deamon prince as my HQ.

    He said that I should chill out, Ulethwe and Iyanden are all Eldar, use the same codex and therefore it's the same army. I was unconvinced by this argument.

    Could what he did be considered "cheesy" or am I just getting bent out of shape over a minor thing?

    May your aim be true, and your targets plentiful.

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  3. #2
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escaflowne View Post
    Could what he did be considered "cheesy" or am I just getting bent out of shape over a minor thing?
    Did he have the proper models to represent everything listed on his Army List? If so, then you have no reason to be upset. Your list should be able to adapt to all opponents equally, and your opponent should never feel like he's forced to play any one army or list.

    If he were proxying models for his list, then he definetly should have asked for your permission before hand.


  4. #3
    Senior Member artificer's Avatar
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    Second!

    Surprise is the nature of wargames. As long as he had the right stuff, I don't see any problem. Personally I'd be bored silly playing the same basic list / enemy all the time. I also see it as a bit cheesy in general to build a list specifically to kill one army.

    You should pretty much be able to take on all comers, at any time with an army list.
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  5. #4
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    In the rule book it even says that you don't have to let an opponent see your army list.
    The Ten Dimensions

    "I read about something like this in a book." "Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't nothing?" "...Oh yeah."-Peter and Brian Griffin

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    I'm not so much caring to know exactly what he brought item by item. I was annoyed because Ulethwe is primarily a 4+ save army and Iyanden is mostly a 3+ save army. The equipment I'd bring would be rather different. But whatever, it's over and done with and if I'm being a moron about it my bad.

    The way our group plays we all tailor our armies to smash whoever we're playing, it's just how we do things.
    May your aim be true, and your targets plentiful.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Valerian's Avatar
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    What would you have done if he showed up with 1000 points of Orks? So long as he doesn't go over points, and has WYSIWYG (or you agree in advance that he can proxy), then its all fair.

    If it will make you feel any better, you can even make up a fluff justification for the surprise:

    Your Marines initiate movement to ambush an Eldar reconnaissance detachment on Katarine IX. Quite unexpectantly, an unanticipated Ork force shows up and ruins your plans.

    Do your Marines turn tail and run, because they drew the wrong equipment from the armoury earlier that afternoon?

    Valerian

  8. #7
    Senior Member Forsaken2544's Avatar
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    And that is what he did. he knew you were bringing a force to stomp his Ulthwe. So he brought something different. To stomp your forces. If you go armor heavy marines. Everything mounted in a transport, land raiders, predators, etc, and then spring an infantry heavy force with tactical veteran and devestator squads all over your deployment zones, wouldn't that be the same thing?

    It's not like he changed his list 'last minute' like you were suggesting. Nor did he pull out an inquisitor (which is similar to you suggesting a daemon prince.

    Was he using the new codex? If so, you are even more out of luck in your argument, because eldar don't have traits anymore. Anything is available to anyone. Which is part of the reason I am so happy with the current 'dex. (Even if my black guardians and Augment went away)
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  9. #8
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escaflowne View Post
    I was annoyed because Ulethwe is primarily a 4+ save army and Iyanden is mostly a 3+ save army. The equipment I'd bring would be rather different.
    I guess that's my point - most people don't play like that. It's tailoring your army list to deal with a particular army, and is usually considered unsporting.

    If that's what your regular group of players do, then all the more power to you. But the general consesus of players is that one should never tailor their list to a particular army. It just makes things unfair.


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    What's the problem? I mean, you still should've handed him his rump. I mean, Wraithguard are 12" shooty units. Yes, they have a good weapon and a good save, but you outrange him.

    If he's using transports (like those god awful eldar are rife to do), you should've brought your some heavy weapons to deal with them (autocannons, lascannons, etc).

    Besides, your landspeeder (tornadoes?) should've torn him apart. 3+ save armies hate rending.

    It's not that bad, trust me. People do it all the time. Heck, when anyone asks me who I play as in the store, I just smile, nod, and say Space Marines so they'll shush (I play Tyranids and SoB with allied IG, btw).

    It really is not that bad. They are all Eldar, after all. It is the same codex. And if you found it difficult to play against 3+ save armies, well, welcome to the world of people who don't exactly have dozens of choices of all APs of weapons.

    Though, once the new Eldar codex comes out, it won't be that much of a problem. The Eldar just has one army and not any of those weird variants (just themes, if I remember correctly). Still, ghost armies are still viable. They'll just be really, really expensive (even more so than now, perhaps).

    Besides, this now sparks you to be even more sneaky and ingenius and make up for the loss of pride.
    "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

  11. #10
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    Just to play devil's advocate a little I might have been upset like you if my normal playing group always declared the exact army type being used so that you can both then write up custom lists. So in context you might make a case for crying foul... but then again you did agree to him trying something different, without asking for particulars.

    In general though most of us play not knowing exactly what we will be facing. I might confidently expect to play Orks and Marines any given weekend but most players around here have 2 or three armies at 1000 points so you never can tell.

    Naturally I've taken a tooled up anti-Ork list and groaned when he pulled out the Chaos Marines, but I knew I was risking it. Most of the time however I take a balanced list so that it isn't a lop sided game. We even sometimes negotiate lists in the interest of fairness. Ie he doesn't have the models for unit X to counter my unit Y so I simply don't take Y and take another unit of Z instead. (that sounded so wierd)
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