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I use the castellans a lot, I rather enjoy them. Recently however, a few rules challenges have come up to how I've been using them, and I want to make sure to see if my rules arguments are in the wrong or not.
Chaos player rushes Kharn the Betrayer forward. I decide to fire a deterrant mine field in front of the rampaging maniac (I doubt its efficacy, since I don't know his stats, but most non marine players where I play don't know what strength, penetration, etc the castellans are.) Said player informs me that I can't fire at the empty space because its 'targetted at hindering an independant character.' I assumed this to be bs, and he failed to show it in the rulebook and allowed the castellans to land 'on protest.'
Rematch after being steamrolled by Khorne's little red munchkins. I again launch a castellan, it drifts severely and lands right on top of Kharn. Again, the player from situation 1 grumbles that I can't target independant characters. I argue that since it was just as likely to (harmlessly) land on my own troops, and I technically aimed it at a piece of empty real estate, that doesn't apply.
Situation 3: More of a question. The castellans are an ordinance barrage, which means they should automatically cause pinning tests when they come down on top of you, I think. Do they need to inflict damage to cause the test? And do my own men suffer the pinning test, even though the castellans are entirely harmless to them, if it scatters on top of them?
Thanks in advance.
The answer to 1 and 2 are you are right in both instances. You did not target the IC so the castellans firing is not against the rules. In question 1 you can hinder an IC all you want, the rules state you cannot fire at an enemy IC if there is another enemy unit within 6 inches. So firing in front of him is alright. His complaints about scattering into his IC are BS, its like saying an earshaker round from a basilisk scattered from the unit it was aiming at scattered into a lone IC and that counts as you intentionally targeting his IC, its a load of crap.
Since he's using Kharne he probably runs him by himself with friendly units more than six inches away otherwise he risks hurting his own troops. Use a lascannon or melta weapon to kill him with one shot as Kharne is T4 and has no invulnerable save.
Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x
Kharn is rarely protected by being close to people cause he can attack his own guys!
I am not at home so don't have my rulebook handy but i believe all pinning weapons must wound a model before it can pin and ordance weapons (usually will wound something) and they give a negative to the leadership test.
To answer the original questions, yes, you're right. As long as you don't place the template on the IC only, you can put it anywhere you want. If it scatters on him, tough luck to your opponent. Note that you can get the template over the IC if you're targetting a regular model and he happens to be close enough.
If your own men take a wound, then yes, they also have to take a pinning test. If your men can't be harmed, then they won't receive a wound, and won't take the test. Just read about pinning in the BGB and this will also be clear. There are some tricky portions of the BGB and some rules are hard to grasp, but ordnance weapons and pinning shouldn't be.
That clarifies a bit.
The ordinance rules are simple, but the castellan's a whacky-funky version of an ordinance barrage since its incapable of causing harm the round it actually hits. So then, it wouldn't induce a pinning test on the round it actually hit (since it doesn't wound until an enemy moves over it), but would on the following round if the enemy tried to move out of the minefield it creates?
Does that mean then it has a potential for turning into a pinning tarpit? Enemy tries to move out of the minefield, someone gets blown up, and they get pinned, lather-rinse-repeat? That would be a little strange. Or would they be able to move out of the minefield and /then/ get pinned if they failed the test, which seems a little fairer.
Thanks for the clarification on the Independant Character stuff. I kind of figured as long as I don't single the ICs out, I'm fine even if I fortituously blast the little bastards into atoms or plop minefields on top of them. To add a complication I thought of though.
Since the castellans can be targetted at empty space, could one concievably target it at the empty space surrounding an Independant Character? If so, that means you could drop minefields around them, and around other folks like harlequins (not that both aren't pretty adept at handling a hit with no armor penetration.) Right?
If you need a fluff, or logical explination to make you feel better about this, just think that every time someone is blown up, the squad stops to evaluate how to make it out of the mine field without losing legs... I honestly think that would be just as traumatic as death raining from the sky.
also, it would be perfctly legal to target the space directly in front (or behind, or to the side) of an IC, and include him in the blast. As long as the IC is not directly under the hole in the middle of the blast template it's all good.