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  1. #1
    Member Fox3's Avatar
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    Stealth with Markerlights question

    Hi all,

    if a tau stealth team is equipped with markerlight/markerlight drones (heavy weapons), can they make their jump in the assault phase after firing (assuming of course they didn't move in the movement phase)? I have seen various tacticas suggest they can, but i wanted to get the "professional" opinion on it. Thanks,

    "To follow any path other than the Tau'va is to doom us all. Only together and with courage and discipline shall we stand victorious. Fight with fire and courage and nothing can stand against us."

    - Commander Shadowsun

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  3. #2
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    724 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox3 View Post
    Hi all,

    if a tau stealth team is equipped with markerlight/markerlight drones (heavy weapons), can they make their jump in the assault phase after firing (assuming of course they didn't move in the movement phase)? I have seen various tacticas suggest they can, but i wanted to get the "professional" opinion on it. Thanks,
    This is quite a contentious problem, the rules for heavy weapons say you cannot move and shoot heavy weapons (this is referring to standard non vehicle infantry type models with no special rules such as slow and purposeful).
    Now I think we have to assume its obvious the GW rule writers are referring to the turn sequence and phases that make up this turn sequence, i/e:
    (a)Movement
    (b)Shooting
    (c)Assault
    Now the only restriction on units in the assault phase that have fired a heavy weapon is they cannot assault, this means what it says attempting to or engaging another unit in close combat.
    A unit cannot move in the movement phase and then shoot a heavy weapon and this follows the established turn of events for a turn, so a unit of stealths with markerdrones would go something like this

    (1) Unit moves 6"
    (2) Cannot fire ML's so drones do nothing, steaths fire their burst cannons in the shooting phase
    (3) unit moves 6" in its assault phase
    (4) Unit does not move in its next movement phase
    (5) Drones fire Markerlights in the shooting phase
    (6) Unit moves 6" back in its assault phase (not into an assault).

    Now this is perfectly legal and if the unit does not move in its next assault phase it can fire the marker lights again because they have not moved in the movement phase and the unit is allowed to move in its assault phase with no penalties, because restrictions to shooting etc are restricted to the turn and the turn ends after the assault phase.

    Thats my take on it, others will argue the move or shoot means you cannot move period, but I think the sequence is pretty clear "if an infantry unit moves it cannot move and then shoot" in that order if you move you cant shoot, if you want to shoot you cannot move before you shoot, the only restriction in the assault phase is you cannot assault, it does not say you cannot move, just not assault and the rules for jetpacks make it quite clear you can MOVE in the assault phase but not assault, which fits perfectly with the no assault restriction in the heavy rules.
    1984

  4. #3
    Senior Member Lord Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru View Post
    Thats my take on it, others will argue the move or shoot means you cannot move period, but I think the sequence is pretty clear "if an infantry unit moves it cannot move and then shoot" in that order if you move you cant shoot, if you want to shoot you cannot move before you shoot, the only restriction in the assault phase is you cannot assault, it does not say you cannot move, just not assault and the rules for jetpacks make it quite clear you can MOVE in the assault phase but not assault, which fits perfectly with the no assault restriction in the heavy rules.
    I've read this three times and I'm still not sure what it says. I think I agree? You can't move before firing a heavy weapon, but I see no reason why you can't move after shooting. Jet packs allow movement during the assault phase. Shooting a heavy weapon only means that you can't assault another unit (i.e. move and attack).
    Just out of curiousity, whats next? Maybe you can make an issue about the fact that GW didn't define the action of 'rolling' a D6 to actually mean dropping it in such a manner as to produce a random result; thus making it perfectly acceptable to just put them down with the face up of your choice?

  5. #4
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    724 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Malachi View Post
    I've read this three times and I'm still not sure what it says. I think I agree? You can't move before firing a heavy weapon, but I see no reason why you can't move after shooting. Jet packs allow movement during the assault phase. Shooting a heavy weapon only means that you can't assault another unit (i.e. move and attack).
    Its quite clear:
    A stealth unit cannot move and shoot with heavy weapons, so it has two choices, it can:

    (a) decide its going to shoot its heavy weapons
    (b) decide its not going to shoot its heavy weapons

    If it chooses (a) then it cannot move in the preceding movement phase.
    If it chooses(b) not to shoot with heavy weapons, then it can move in the preceding movement phase and fire any non heavy weapons.

    Then we come to the assault phase. the Stealth unit can choose to:

    (a) stay put and do nothing because it cannot assault according to heavy weapon rules.
    (b) move up to 6" in any direction but not into an assault.

    The jetpack rules state you can move in the assault phase, the restriction on assaulting if you fired heavy weapons applies so you can only move away you cannot assault, the heavy rules only say you cannot assault, they mention nothing about actually moving if your not assaulting (no restriction applies)

    Now we come to the next turn and here is where some argue that the heavy weapon restriction comes into play, because the unit moved in the assault phase they argue the unit cannot fire its heavy weapons, but this is incorrect because we are in a new turn and movement phase comes into effect before the shooting phase (so the move in the assault phase has effectively been nullified) so we go back to the rules above, if the shooting phase came straight after the assault phase then yeah the unit would not be able to fire but it doesn't because we have a fresh movement phase before the shooting phase.
    1984

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    Senior Member Lord Malachi's Avatar
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    I do agree then. Shooting on the turn after making a jet pack move is fine (provided you don't move during that turns movement phase) because as you have stated, it is a new turn.
    Just out of curiousity, whats next? Maybe you can make an issue about the fact that GW didn't define the action of 'rolling' a D6 to actually mean dropping it in such a manner as to produce a random result; thus making it perfectly acceptable to just put them down with the face up of your choice?

  7. #6
    Member Fox3's Avatar
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    Thanks to you both for the clarification. Rep given
    "To follow any path other than the Tau'va is to doom us all. Only together and with courage and discipline shall we stand victorious. Fight with fire and courage and nothing can stand against us."

    - Commander Shadowsun

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