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Thread: Wysiwyg

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    Wysiwyg

    After having read

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ts-gaunts.html

    I wanted to ask a question about WYSIWYG. I have seen Karmoon's description of it (i.e. you may only take an upgrade if it's shown on the model, and if an upgrade is shown on the model, you have the choice of whether to take it or not) in a number of places. Yet, whenever I see it explained in an "official" context, for example in

    http://uk.games-workshop.com/tournam...-pack-2006.pdf

    the wording seems to imply that WYSIWYG is "your models must have precisely the upgrades shown on them - they may not have upgrades not shown, and they must have all those that are shown". But which is it?


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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    How do you propose to model something like, say, Daemonic Essence for Chaos? It's be very difficult to make a good model representing that Gift.

    It's Karmoon's version - they want you to model enough so that it's obvious what sorts of things they have, i.e., make sure to model a Power Fist, make sure the armour is bulkier if it's Artificer Armour, make sure they have a Jump Pack if you gave them one, etc. They won't call you out if you don't model something that is difficult, if not impossible, to accurately model, I don't think.

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    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Hmm.. it appears I stand corrected on that one then.

    I guess it all depends on where you play. At my club, people are ok provided you explain stuff.

    One thing I notice.. is that it says stuff must be modelled on a MAJORITY of the models inthe units.

    So you don't have to kill yourself trying to get rending claws for every Warrior in that 9 strong unit (which you probably shouldn't take anyway).

    I guess at a tournament, they decide the rules, so you're obliged to follow them.
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    Cheers, but that isn't really my question - I can see that there are some upgrades that are hard to model, and these correspondingly aren't expected to be modelled; my question is about the difference (as I see it) between the commonly accepted meaning of the rule and the meaning of the official wording.

    It's more about upgrades that there IS a standard way of modelling, like extended carapaces on a Tyranid - where you can model it on and yet (according to the popular interpretation) declare that the model doesn't have it for the purpose of a game, even though (as far as I can tell) the official statement of the rule seems to say they must have it whenever you play with them.

    I really want the popular interpretation to be "the right one", as it makes things an awful lot easier for me building my army. I just don't quite understand how it fits what the rule seems to actually say.

    EDIT: Sorry this was directed to Lost Nemesis; Karmoon posted while I was typing

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    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    In which case, you're probalby best building your army like a paranoid north korean on the run.

    You'll have to commit to a particular build and list and stick to it. Such is the price of attendint tournaments.

    Think very carefully on whether you want your genies with extended carapace or scything talons.

    I'd strongly recommend magnetising your big models should go not decide to go with the TL Venom Cannons that you like.

    Also, you might like to take advantage of the 'counts as' rule. Take old genestealers and use them to represent something else.
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    ....coookies... GDMNW's Avatar
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    Wysiwyg

    This is a great system. It encourages conversions and leads to some of the best miniatures I have ever seen. It needs to be applied with some common sense however. I wanted to make the following points.

    1-

    The majority equipment rule applied to warhammer fantasy battle where a unit must be assumed to be armed with whatever weapons the majority of the miniatures are carrying. This means that you can have a couple of guys with spears in a swordsman unit. Given the nature of the game this does not lead to confusion of any sort. This is not the case in 40K. What a miniature is carrying actually matters. If a miniature carries a meltagun people will keep their armour away. It will upset them when you tell them it's actually a flamers as you open up on his CC troops...

    2-

    It's ok that some features cannot be modelled or represented. There are in fact rules to cover this. For example if a model has a pistol holster then you are allowed to say that it contains any pistol that the model can carry. Also all miniatures are assumed to carry a knife even if one is not modelled. Some equipment isn't physical equipment, where this is the case then you can try and model stuff onthe figure to show a certain thing. Like putting lots of kit on verterans to show that they have fought in lots of battles but this is not required.

    3- The rule of three.

    a- WYSIWYG
    b- Not on the model, not in the game
    c- On the model? Pay the cost.

    This leads to fairness. Otherwise it would be simple to make units appear far more expensive and valuable than they really are. For example putting a pair of seeker missiles on a Piranha increases their cost to at least 80pts a piece. Much more worthy of enemy fire than a 60 pt piranaha.

    Exceptions:

    House rules are the exception. This means that whatever your opponent agrees with is fine. All of us want to try figures before we shell out for the real thing. That's ok, but don't expect to play in a serious game with guardian miniatures standing in as farseers and SM dreadnoughts labelled "wraithlord with starcannon and shuriken cannon



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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon View Post
    In which case, you're probalby best building your army like a paranoid north korean on the run.

    You'll have to commit to a particular build and list and stick to it. Such is the price of attendint tournaments.

    Think very carefully on whether you want your genies with extended carapace or scything talons.

    I'd strongly recommend magnetising your big models should go not decide to go with the TL Venom Cannons that you like.

    Also, you might like to take advantage of the 'counts as' rule. Take old genestealers and use them to represent something else.
    Yeah, I'm already planning on magnets for my Carnifexes and my HT! Should be pretty good when it's done... I've (reluctantly) given up on having twin-linked VCs for the most part. Not because they're ineffective, but because I started to agree with the feeling that it is a bit expensive for what it achieves. If it cost the same as VC/BS or only 5 or so points more I'd still be doing it... but I am going to have enough VCs that I can magnetise them and have 2 Carnifexes with TL VCs any time I want!

    I don't think I'm going to be going to tournaments much, let alone ones with restrictive painting standards. But I am going to one this year and as I wanted to know that I understood the rule anyway, I thought I'd ask about it.

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    The Uncivil Servent Mikhail The Heretic's Avatar
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    As has been said if you are playing in tournaments your models must be WYSIWYG. However between friends i see no problems with model rep so long as i am informed what is being repped before the game begins and all the points tally up.


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    I've always felt that if you are following WYSIWYG to the letter then if you see an upgrade, you get the upgrade, therefore you have to pay for the upgrade. Earlier someone mentioned that WYSIWYG was a one way street, i.e. if it's not modeled you can't have it, if it is modeled you can say you don't have it. To me this violates WYSIWYG. Just my 2 cents.
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    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnet_man View Post
    I've always felt that if you are following WYSIWYG to the letter then if you see an upgrade, you get the upgrade, therefore you have to pay for the upgrade. Earlier someone mentioned that WYSIWYG was a one way street, i.e. if it's not modeled you can't have it, if it is modeled you can say you don't have it. To me this violates WYSIWYG. Just my 2 cents.
    You're probably (read definitely) right.

    But, I'll still stay magnanamous and say, I don't want to play anyone or in an environment where I can't say, 'Before we start, this guy should have a bolt pistol, NOT a plasma pistol,' before the match starts in a friendly manner. I can't see the point in geting het up about that.

    Doesn't interest me. It's a only a game.
    LO Rules

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    Anyone who's as loyal and motivated to doing what they love as you are is respectable in my book
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyric
    I'm taking leave of my senses and shall be out of my mind until further notice.

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