Does a null rod negate the Veil of Tears? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Does a null rod negate the Veil of Tears?

    Hey all,

    Due to some of the recent discussion regarding Eldar Harlequins, I've been mulling over some means of combating them with my Daemonhunters list. One of the ideas I've been tossing around was using a null rod to negate the Veil of Tears power, which is mainly what makes them difficult. I'm curious to see what the rest of you think about the legality of this.
    My reasoning is:

    1) The DH 'dex states that "no psychic powers whatsoever" will "affect" any model with this item or the squad he's attached to "regardless of the source" (pg 1.

    2) The VoT is described as a psychic power in its description in the Eldar 'dex (pg 49).

    3) The VoT psychic power will therefore have no effect on an Inquisitor who carries a null rod and his retinue, thus they are free to target the unit of Harlequins as normal.

    What do you all think?

    -H

    Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
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  3. #2
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    It's one of those grey areas (the same question applies to SoB shield of faith rule). I'd say you couldn't use it, though. Veil of Tears does not affect enemy units, it affects the harlequins (it is "cast" on them, after all), so while the inquisitor interacts with VoT, it doesn't actually affect the inquisitor himself.

    Of course, someone will follow with the fact that as the inquisitor has to take a test, he is affected - hence why it's a grey area.


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  4. #3
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rork View Post
    Veil of Tears does not affect enemy units, it affects the harlequins (it is "cast" on them, after all), so while the inquisitor interacts with VoT, it doesn't actually affect the inquisitor himself.
    Having read the 'fluff' blurb next to VoT, it's described as 'erasing' the Harlequins presence from their enemies' minds. Which sounded like it was affecting the Inquisitor to me (though I realize making rules decisions based on 'fluff' isn't always great idea =P). I originally agreed with your argument, and didn't think it would work, but I decided to go back and re-read the entry for the null rod. The 'whatsoever' and 'regardless of source' seemed like pretty strong language to me, and 'affect' seemed general enough to include even non-targeted effects like VoT. Then again, rules-interactions like this are never quite as clear-cut as we'd like them to be. Thanks for the reply, Rork =).

    -H
    Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Lamenter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rork View Post
    [...]
    it's a grey area.
    I am sure strong arguments can be made for both sides of the interpretation. (it only affects the Eldar unit vs. "no powers whatsoever") so that your best bet is to probably dice off every turn.
    Shut up and play.

  6. #5
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamenter View Post
    your best bet is to probably dice off every turn.
    Well, that's the sort of situation I'd like to avoid =). I'd rather not burn the points (not to mention the modeling) for a Null rod if it'll only work half the time. *Shrug* C'est la vie. I suppose pre-game discussion is the way to do it, and a dice-off if that doesn't reach an agreement.

    Thanks for the reply!

    -H
    Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
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  7. #6
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Yeah, gotta say, rules wise, Hasten, you have a pretty darn strong leg to stand on.

    While I concur that the power isn't targetting him, because of the wording (if it was indeed posted verbatum), it does indeed affect him and his squid.

    However, conceal wouldn't be stopped, as THAT doesn't affect him, it effects the guardians/warlock.
    My armies:
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    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarzen View Post
    While I concur that the power isn't targetting him, because of the wording (if it was indeed posted verbatum), it does indeed affect him and his squid.
    That has to be one of the funniest typos I've ever seen.

    I vote that the null rod works against VOT, since the source doesn't matter and the power clearly affects the opponent's mind, not the physical area surrounding the harlequins.

  9. #8
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarzen View Post
    it does indeed affect him and his squid.
    Apparently, these Harlequins are practitioners of the mysterious arts of squid-mind-control. Spooky =P.

    Heh, seriously though, thanks for all the responses. I think I'll squeeze one into my list, just for giggles.

    -H
    Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
    -George Orwell

    www.drmcninja.com
    If you're intruiged by doctors who are also ninjas, then this is the webcomic for you!

  10. #9
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    What else would you call a harlies kiss? It's all slimy and tentacled. Pulls down giant ships like a kraken would=)

    And yes, I felt it was best to leave the post as it was, seeing as it was amusing.

    So, him, his squid, and his squad...

    Collar of khorne-similar thing. The power is always on, so it can't be dispelled, but it won't effect the unit with the collars.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

  11. #10
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasten View Post

    1) The DH 'dex states that "no psychic powers whatsoever" will "affect" any model with this item or the squad he's attached to "regardless of the source" (pg 1.

    2) The VoT is described as a psychic power in its description in the Eldar 'dex (pg 49).

    3) The VoT psychic power will therefore have no effect on an Inquisitor who carries a null rod and his retinue, thus they are free to target the unit of Harlequins as normal.

    What do you all think?

    -H
    I stand by this very strongly. The VoT doesn't have any strong wording behind it, rather an absence of wording. GW's intentions with the rod were to negate weapons like VoT. The rod should work, as the Grey Knights unit is affeceted, not targeted.
    Turtles For the Turtle God!
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