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  1. #1
    Fury of the Ages Solo's Avatar
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    LOS and skimmers shooting

    G'day everyone,

    Had a big tournament on the weekend and I got rather shot up because I was unaware of this rule...

    My opponent had his Falcon on the other side of a BIG wall like 6 inches high, he moved his falcon then started shooting at my models on the other side. Is this legal?

    He basically said that because it was a skimmer, he could ignore line of sight...

    But I call to God, and the LORD saves me.
    Psalm 55:16

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  3. #2
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    121 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo View Post
    G'day everyone,

    Had a big tournament on the weekend and I got rather shot up because I was unaware of this rule...

    My opponent had his Falcon on the other side of a BIG wall like 6 inches high, he moved his falcon then started shooting at my models on the other side. Is this legal?

    He basically said that because it was a skimmer, he could ignore line of sight...
    Sorry to tell you SOLO, you were boned. Models follow MEV unless they are:
    1-non walker (skimmers and other vehicles), which use gun mount to determine LOS,
    2-you are shooting past over CC or area terrain.

    Your opponent is getting the idea that SKIMMERS NEVER BLOCK LOS mixed up. He may also be thinking of third edition or even second editions pop up attacks.

    That said, if the wall was classed as AT and the skimmer had anypart of it over said piece of terrain, it could be seen and shot, as well as shoot everything in the near vacinity.

    I'll try and dreg up one of my many posts with pictures and examples, but until then you could try a search under my name and LOS.
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  4. #3
    Fury of the Ages Solo's Avatar
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    91 (x2)

    Thanks Tarzen! Yeah, I was a bit annoyed by it, and yesterday I worked out that even though I couldn't prove the rule wrong, I couldn't find where the rule existed! As you say.

    I found out yesterday (after I left the tournament) in one of the guys later games, a guy confronted him about this rule and the bloke with the falcons got real pissed off with it. Oh well, live and learn.
    Thanks mate
    But I call to God, and the LORD saves me.
    Psalm 55:16

  5. #4
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    434 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo View Post
    G'day everyone,

    Had a big tournament on the weekend and I got rather shot up because I was unaware of this rule...

    My opponent had his Falcon on the other side of a BIG wall like 6 inches high, he moved his falcon then started shooting at my models on the other side. Is this legal?

    He basically said that because it was a skimmer, he could ignore line of sight...
    Hi,
    its not clear where your opponents Falcon moved to, for example did it move above the wall, around the wall or stayed behind the wall so it just moved along it. If the Falcon gained line of sight by moving above the wall then LOS is achieved but if the Falcon skirted along the ground keeping area terrain between the target and the firer then LOS has not been achieved ( I suspect that this is what you mean't here) and Tarzen has it in the bag.
    Skimmers don't ignore LOS, they just don't block LOS unless they are immobilised or become wrecks.
    Cheers.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  6. #5
    Fury of the Ages Solo's Avatar
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    Sorry Wickywack, I meant that when the falcon moved, it stayed on the other side of the wall, it didn't go anywhere near the wall, or onto it.

    Thanks for the reply
    But I call to God, and the LORD saves me.
    Psalm 55:16

  7. #6
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Wow that sounds like one of my local independent store, the people that play there all play with the rule thinking skimmers ignore terrains altogether once they have moved. They all take it from the rulebook with p.61 under Skimmer -- "Skimmers are capable of making a powerful boost to gain height and cross obstacles. As such, skimmers ignore terrain altogether when they move and can even end their move hovering over difficult terrain or impassible terrain.". With that being said, they take it right from the rulebook and stop reading at this point thinking the rule is what it says. ( I tried my best to correct them by telling them to read the entire paragraph but those boneheads only think to their own advantage and refuse to acknowledge the correct interpretation. (9 out of 10 of them plays Tau and it explains alot!)
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  8. #7
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Easy fix there Neko-just shoot his tank, claiming you get to ignore terrain to it too!

    That tends to fix things right quick.

    Admittedly, I hate going down that road, but sometimes it is important to claim all my models get a 2+ save since they seem to not be willing to listen to the rules.
    My armies:
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    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
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    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

  9. #8
    LO Zealot Kirasu's Avatar
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    PLayer's tend to confuse "size of area terrain" with normal terrain

    It specifically states in the rulebook that terrain, buildings, whatever block only what they physically block. SOME gaming groups determine size of terrain for all terrain involved (1,2,3) but in tournaments this should not be the case

    If a wall is bigger than the falcon then it should not be able to shoot over it, regardless if its a size 3 building. However, the bigger point is that you were screwed on the fact that the falcon was immune to return fire

    Unless there is some kind of special rule about line of sight (night fighting, etc) then any unit that can shoot can be shot at by the target in return

    A lot of people also confuse the "skimmers dont block LOS" and assume it says "skimmers dont have los blocked"

    As others have said, you were jipped..

    Easy way to remember.. Area terrain has 3 sizes and vehicles are only stopped by size 3 terrain.. However, ALL other terrain blocks what it can block based on its dimensions

  10. #9
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    135 (x3)

    Quote Originally Posted by nekochen View Post
    "Skimmers are capable of making a powerful boost to gain height and cross obstacles. As such, skimmers ignore terrain altogether when they move and can even end their move hovering over difficult terrain or impassible terrain.".
    I believe if the skimmer wants to end his movement above the wall, he can and then shoot. However, he stays floating above the wall until the next time he moves and choses to go lower.
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  11. #10
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    You got fairly messed up dude. You have my sympathy.
    In response to Nekochen, skimmers ignore terrain for the purposes of moving. They are still affected by LOS rules like everything else. But they can ignore terrain when they move.
    Turtles For the Turtle God!
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