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So, is it?
I came to this when I was playing with my Chaos marines against Necrons. My opponent had a Destroyer and behind it, and very close to it, was his HQ. I had like 7 marines with bolters and one with Missile launcher. I decided to use a frag missile (small blast marker) so I could even hit the HQ standing behind the destroyer. The destroyer eventually saved the damage of the blast, the HQ didn't. The destroyer did eventually die by the bolter shots.
So if I choose to account the bolter shots first, the destroyer died and the next shot was in the "empty"? Thus nullifying the use and effect of the missile launcher. And as a result the HQ wouldn't have been hit.
Me and the guy I was playing against were somewhat looking at each other like... "hm... yeah, how does that work. Is there a defined fire order?"
You simply pick and choose mate.
You haven't done anything wrong.
Sometimes you'll make the right choice, sometimes you'll make the wrong choice.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
Something to keep in mind- all shots from the same unit are simultaneous except blasts and templetes. Those are indeed worked out one at a time.
Perfectly fine to hit with your ML and all bolter hits, and have the "splash" damage hit other units.
16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
1,500+ of Legion (just started)
The order in which you fired your guns was perfectly legal.
However, when you fired the missle launcher at the destroyer squad, and caught his lord, you do not roll for the lord seperately, or save for him seperately. When he failed that save on his lord he could have taken the destroyer as a casualty instead. Page 30 talks about not having to remove models under the blast template.
Basically you can't snipe hq's in that way, with any template weapon, as all rolls to wound are done using majority toughness of the targetted unit, all saves are made on the majority armour save of the targetted unit, and then casualties can be taken from anywhere in the unit that was targetted. If all your rolls to wound had wounded, and all his saves had failed, then his lord should have taken a wound.
Last edited by xinsanityx; April 24th, 2007 at 10:55.
Well, it would depend on whether the lord was joined to the squad. If he was joined, you'd be right - if the lord was acting independently (and therefore a separate unit) he would be rolled for separately.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
its tricky... if you have a blast weapon and other guns in a unit. If you use the blast first some of yor other guns may be out of range suddenly as cassualties are removed (not to nemtion that you may be unable to charge after shooting) and if you don't the perfect template shot may no longer exist.
it's actually a very important aspect of the game that many forget that you can tweak a few more kills out each turn simply by choosing to fire with your units in the right order...
1. you roll to hit with the frag missle. The frag missle hits. (pg. 30)
2. Next you place the blast marker and see how many models you catch fully, and partially with the shot. (pg. 30)
3. you roll for the partial hits. (pg. 30)
4. now you need to roll to wound. Pg. 30 says nothing about rolling to wound for blast weapons, so we follow the normal rules for rolling to wound on pg 23. On page 23 it talks about comparing the strength of the weapon to the targets toughness. The destroy unit was the target so we use the destroyer's toughness ( i know the lord and destroyer are the same toughness, but if it were say, a unit of space marine bikes being targeted by a frag missle and the missle caught a character on foot this would be important) Then in the next column it talks about rolling the dice together.
5. Now you make saving throws
6. If saving throws are failed you remove casualties. Pg 30 states you can remove casualties from the entire unit (this is referring back to the target unit it was talking about a paragraph earlier) not just those under the marker. And then the designers note even talks about the use of blast weapons being used to pick out heavy weapons and leaders and how the designers don't intend them to be used in that way.In my book an hq is a leader.
I can't find anywhere in the bgb where it says you roll for units seperately, at any time. It in fact leans the other way, saying that when you roll to wound you roll all dice together, and when you remove casualties you remove them from the target unit, not any other unit that was caught by the blast that wasn't the target unit.
If he was attached to the unit, the Necron player screwed himself. If he wasn't part of the unit, that's the Necron player's bad.
In either case, it wasn't the original poster's fault the Necron player doesn't know how to a) remove casualties properly or b) know not to leave the big prettys in the open like that.
We all carry on,
When our brothers in arms are gone.
So raise your glass high
For tomorrow we die,
And return from the ashes you call.
I'm saying IF the necron lord was NOT part of the unit, you do NOT role seperately. You role all at once, regardless of whether he is in the unit or not in the unit, and the necron player can choose who to take out from the target unit. If two or more units are hit by a blast, no where in the rules does it say anywhere that you can role seperately for each unit. In fact on page 23 under rolling to wound it says that you use the target units toughness, and roll all dice together. Blast weapons have no seperate to wound rules that take precedence over the rules on page 23. The rules on removing casualties also say you remove casualties from the target unit
Im saying that the necron player did not have to take the wound on the lord(and hopefully the poster will tell the necron player this next time they play). Everything the poster did however was right. The steps i wrote were in reply to rorks statement. My point is it doesn't matter whether the lord was joined to the squad or not, you never roll things seperately for an HQ, or roll things seperately for two different squads. If two different squads are hit, they are all rolled together.
Last edited by xinsanityx; April 24th, 2007 at 15:22.
Odd as it seems, it does seem that xinsanityx is correct on this point.