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  1. #1
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    Swooping Hawks question

    Two questions about Swooping Hawks.
    1. When they arrive through Deep Strike, they get their grenade attack. However, when is this actually resolved(scatter, wounds, armour saves etc) ? When they arrive in the movement phase, or in the shooting phase ?
    2. Can they grenade 1 unit, then shoot the lasguns at another ? I can't see anything in the codex or rules which allows them to do this.

    References to page numbers or FAQ's would be much appreciated.

    Thanks


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    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    The grenades are dropped as they deep-strike. So you resolve damage before placing the hawks on the table and rolling for their deep-strike scatter.

    And yes you can drop grenades on a target then shoot lasguns at someone else. I can't get a quote to back that up though.
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    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordLink View Post
    And yes you can drop grenades on a target then shoot lasguns at someone else. I can't get a quote to back that up though.
    The grenade pack isn't shooting, so doesn't follow any of the rules for firing a weapon. So you are free to fire at a different target to which you bombed.


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    Sorry, what makes it not qualify as shooting ? It does say anywhere on the table, so gets to ignore range, LOS etc, which is clear from the rules.
    But I've read the Codex entry a few times, and just can't agree its not shooting, it's a blast template weapon that you can use on the turn you enter from Deep Strike. It doesn't specify which phase to use it, so surely this means it is used at the same time as all other weapons (including psychic powers) ? It also does not specifically give the ability to attack multiple units, unlike Tau wargear which does, so should conform to normal shooting rules.

    Resolving an attack in the movement phase knocks everything else out : your opponent then resolves casualties and morale checks in your movement phase ? No other rule in the game does this. There seems to be some large assumptions going on here.

    I will check the BGB tonight for when attacks are resolved (it must qualify as an attack).

    Btw : my next army will be Eldar, so I am not having an anti Eldar flame.
    Last edited by dizzyjock; April 30th, 2007 at 16:49. Reason: Changed now to not, and a grammer correction - doh

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    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyjock View Post
    Resolving an attack in the movement phase knocks everything else out : your opponent then resolves casualties and morale checks in your movement phase ? No other rule in the game does this. There seems to be some large assumptions going on here.
    Well, a somewhat similar example would be a Daemonhunter Inquisitor with a mystic henchman, which allows his unit to take a 'free' shot at any deepstriking units within a certain range of the squad. This free shooting is resolved in the opponent's (i.e. the owner of the deepstriking units) movement phase, including casualties, etc. And the Daemonhunter can shoot at any number of unit that does this, so it can most definately fire at multiple targets. There's also the Auspex example, which allows a similar effect against infiltrating units, only it occurs before the game has even begun (well, sorta)! So, shooting in other phases, and shooting at multiple units, is not exactly unprecedented =). I think in this case it's treated as a "special attack", and so it doesn't follow the usual shooting rules. If you find differently in the codex, please let us know!

    Hope that was somewhat helpful!

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    Thanks Hasten, precedent is always useful. But the examples you listed are fairly well defined in the rules. Swooping Hawks aren't, and I'm still not convinced by the assumptions made about Swooping Hawks , which seem to be based on the absence of guidance in the rules, not the interpetation of a defined rule (e.g Mystics, Auspex etc).

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    The codex says any time they use the deepstrike ability they can use their grenade pack. My interpretation of that is that when they deepstrike they use the grenade pack, not 2 phases later in the shooting phase, because they haven't used their deepstrike ability in the shooting phase.

    Also in the grenade packs description it says place the blast marker on a model. It never says anything about targeting, which most other weapons do. Since they don't pick a target when they place the blast (the grenade pack rules don't require you to pick a target, they just require you to place it on a model) they can still pick a target in the shooting phase.

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    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    And I don't think range and LoS are issues when you drop it anywhere on the board...
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    The problem here is how this is interpreted, but the Codex simply doesn't contradict or overrule specific rules in the BGB.
    They gain the grenade attack when they deepstrike : no mention is made of which phase to resolve it in. I read this as an extra weapon they can use this turn, similar to a vehicle having multiple weapons to fire.
    I reread the BGB, which is clear that a unit may not shoot at different targets *in the shooting phase*. The Codex doesn't overrule this.
    Which seems to put the emphasis back on to when the grenade attack is actually resolved, and it isn't actually defined. If it's in the shooting phase, they can't target multiple units, if it's in the movement phase they can. <sigh>.
    >It never says anything about targeting, which most other weapons do
    It is pretty clear about targeting : anywhere on the board, which I don't think can be made clearer. I can't agree it's not a shooting attack - you still roll for scatter and distance the same way as barrage weapons with LOS.

    Thanks for the contributions so far, but it does seem to be personal interpretation and preference rather than RAW, precedent or logic.

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    deepstriking is before the movment and shooting phase. they pop the template wherever they want, and then calcuate wounds etc. then they land. then in the shooting phase, they can pop there lasguns at whatever they want. however, if you give them the skyleap thing, you can do a really cheap thing. you can pop grenades, then immedietly bring them back up, then do the same thing again next turn

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