Can models peek from behind cover... - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Can models peek from behind cover...

    Well, it took me quite some time to think of a proper formulation on this thing; so bear with me please.

    Some guy had a bunch of snipers in cover, pretty much behind pillars. Now, he says his sniper is in cover, however when he shoots, he simple turns the model 180 around so that the gun next to the pillar. He states he can shoot, but I cannot shoot him. At the "gaming club" where he did learn some basics they explained him that you could imagine models as real soldiers able to duck and take a peek around a corner.

    To me it sounds like complete ***t. I mean, c'mon... models that can duck or lie down (I can only imagine a marine standing on his toes to take a short peek over a wall {goofy}). Sure scenery can give an additional cover save, but stuff like you can't see me, but I can see you cause I had my head tucked in when your turn was sounds pretty stupid.

    I made a little drawing of the situation, hope this helps even more.


    Black = Base of model
    Yellow = Pillar/wall (which was higher then model)
    Red = Gun in my turn
    Green = Gun in his turn

    Keep in mind the model didn't move, just turn. But because of the not that big of a build model (space marine scout sniper) he was like "well, the model isn't that broad and he could fit/hide behind a column". While I was like... "heck, if I modeled a gun in an L shape sticking out 5 inches from the base, then what?"

    I pointed out that base size counts, and basically, if the base isn't completly behind the wall, it's not in cover. Therefore, if the base isn't completly behind cover, I can shoot and see it.


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  3. #2
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    Can you see any part of his model?

    If so, you can shoot him. He will probably get a ruin's type cover save, but you can shoot him.

    Can't see any part of his model?

    He can't shoot you.

    He can't move his models after his shooting phase either, so he couldn't shoot you then duck back behind cover.

  4. #3
    Junior Member Captain_Obvious's Avatar
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    Lol!

    Nubnubnubnub!

  5. #4
    Librarian from Hell Andusciassus's Avatar
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    746 (x8)

    Indeed Chaoschrist, it seems as if either
    a) your opponent have misunderstood the rules
    b) he was pulling your leg
    You could shoot him even if he was spinning around like the blades of a gyrocopter.

  6. #5
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    Well, he just started, so I guess he didn't understand.

    however, I've got a question in return;

    Say this is the situation:



    Black = model
    Yellow = cover
    Red = Weapon in my turn
    Green= Weapon in his turn

    The model is modelled like it's leaning forward. I can't see a model, nor the base. However, if he turns around, his weapon would be pointing out around the cover.

    Wouldn't it be bending the rules on this one?

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    If his unit can't see your unit, he doesn't have LoS and can't shoot.

    And, once again, he can't move his unit(or even turn it around) after shooting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khisanth Magus View Post
    If his unit can't see your unit, he doesn't have LoS and can't shoot.

    And, once again, he can't move his unit(or even turn it around) after shooting.
    And line of sight is the base of the model right? I have this guy over again this week and I'd like to explain him why it was wrong... hence all my questions

  9. #8
    King of France techmarine Rannon Zriker's Avatar
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    if the BASE can't get any teeny-weeny line of sight to another model then it can't shoot

    and dynamic poses don't help with ANY shooting, nothing

    so he's a cheater or newb who didn't know

    *looks at awesomely posed grey knight with standard for awesomeness* also he can't turn his models around just for that
    Create flames for a galaxy and it will be warm. Put a galaxy in flames and it will be warm for the rest of it's existence.

  10. #9
    Dark Eldar Gerbil Splata's Avatar
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    159 (x5)

    actually thats something i always get confused about too, so its model, not base that you must be ableto see to fire, correct?


    also for the record, a gun doesn't see people, people see people an L shaped gun is an weapon extension, which can't shoot, or be hit, as outlined in the BGB (sorry, at work no page ref)

  11. #10
    Ender of Threads Wraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splata View Post
    actually thats something i always get confused about too, so its model, not base that you must be ableto see to fire, correct?
    No. A model is assumed to occupy the area of its base. This ensures that everybody is on an equal footing, and there is no advantage to having small, lithe little models (Eldar and such) that are then much harder to see or disadvantage to having bulky models like Marines and Orks which would be easier to see. This also means that big action poses, imposing weaponry, and elaborate banners don't make it impossible for a model to hide. (see BGB pg. 6, 7, 20 and 21)

    Strictly speaking, so long as you can see any little part of their base, you can see the model... In actual gameplay though, it seems that the general unwritten rule is that you should be able to see at least a decent bit of the base in order to shoot it - yes, you may technically be able to see the last 0.7 mm of the base peeking out past the scenery, but you're pushing the rules pretty hard to be able to claim a shot. Basic sportsmanship more or less demands that you just let it slide.
    Last edited by Wraith; June 5th, 2007 at 01:59. Reason: minor clarification.
    We've got plenty of youth... How about a fountain of smart?


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