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Ok. So basically I've read the BGB over and over, scanning through everything I thought was relevant and couldn't answer the following question to my satisfaction.
Are ICs targetable separate from their retinue? The only alteration to IC rules in the BGB under the heading "Retinue" stated they cannot leave their retinue until they're alone.
Any IC that joins a unit cannot be singled out and if an IC is a single model (no retinue or not joined to a unit) then it can only be targeted if it is the closest target to the firing unit.
Do you have a reference for that? I believe you and would really like to be able to point to an official statement regarding the matter.
A Retinue is treated like a normal unit, so the rule you're searching for would be BGB pg 51, "Shooting at Characters".
In close combat, however, a IC may be targeted by models that are engaging it, as it counts as a separate unit for the purposes of attacks, wounds, and saves. On the flipside, if IC and Retinue engage in close combat, AFAIK the Retinue is treated like any other unit, which means the IC may only allocate attacks against models it is B2B with.
This is what I think. The IC section says the IC rules do not apply only to upgrade characters and single-model units, not to to characters in retinues. The retinues subheading restricts only the character's departure/joining of the retinue (clearly prohibiting it). It does not say anything else. Thus I feel I must apply the IC section's rules to characters in retinues. ((Which means they are treated as a separate unit in assault, same unit for shooting))
If you can contradict this, please by all means do it. Cite your reference, of course.
I think this is very RAW. i understand that it does not SAY that it counts as an IC that has joined another unit but i think RAI would suggest that it is the same.This is what I think. The IC section says the IC rules do not apply only to upgrade characters and single-model units, not to to characters in retinues. The retinues subheading restricts only the character's departure/joining of the retinue (clearly prohibiting it). It does not say anything else. Thus I feel I must apply the IC section's rules to characters in retinues. ((Which means they are treated as a separate unit in assault, same unit for shooting))
In saying that though, if yours was the case HoD, then all one would really have to do is place the IC towards the back of the unit & *pop* no longer the closest enemy (as per rules) so your interpretation works
my 2cents :ninja:
First off, what is RAW? (literally the word raw?) What is RAI?
Closest enemy rules are used only for shooting at Independent characters. Whether an IC is part of a retinue or not, they can't be picked out from the unit except under very rare circumstances (like: Only model in 12" for a melta or something similar).
I'm not concerned with whether an IC with retinue is considered joined with the unit or not. I am concerned about assault rules. Does an IC in his retinue have behavior similar to hidden sergeants? Or like an IC (following the rules in the BGB for ICs in assault: Treated as a separate unit).
RAI - Rules as intended
RAW - Rules as written.
ICs in a squad/retinue are part of the squad for shooting, so may not be singled out just like an enemy may not single out a sergeant or something. I'm not sure how torrent of fire would work. I imagine the measured melta gun snipe rule would still work though.
In hand to hand combat, and IC is ALWAYS an IC. He/she/it may always be targetted. This is good and bad. It's bad if you have a powerfull IC and a rubbish squad, because the character will just get squashed. If both the IC and squad are powerfull, then the enemy has hobson's choice, and will get nailed either way or be forced to split their attacks.
The only difference between a retinue and a squad is that an IC may not choose to leave a retinue.
But, to make up for this, a retinue often doesn't take up a slot on the FOC.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
to stick my oar in. i entirely agree with what karmoon said.
your IC can be picked out in combat if you have a model in B2B contact, and any models within 2" and not in b2b with someone else can hit him.
shooting you don't get to choose who you hit, unless you can't wound anyone else. mind you watch these rules as in my experience even red shirt managers get this stuff wrong.
on the same note, if your IC gets seperated from the squad by casualties, is he still part of the squad or does he become an IC again? (this was explained to me really badly once, and has confused me no end since)
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