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  1. #1
    Senior Member aussiedave's Avatar
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    Shooting as a Unit

    I have looked through the BGB and can't find an answer to this, I am sure it is right in front of me though.

    A GW staffer told me that in his Tau army he takes a unit of three Crisis suits, two with Burst Cannons and one with a Fusion Blaster. He said that he thought it was great because you can shoot the burst cannons first causing the opponent to remove casualties and then shoot the Fusion Blaster second, picking off whatever charecter was left over.

    I was under the impression that you fired all the units shots at the same time regardless of what weapon was being used, so your opponent would be able to allocate the Fusion Blaster shot first, giving it to a peon and then taking whatever other casualties for the burst cannon.

    Can someone clear that up for me.

    Dave

    I don't care what you say. I found a lightsaber in my garage and that makes me a Jedi

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  3. #2
    Member Bigs180's Avatar
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    as per the rules in the shooting process, you must roll everything together. you cant take casualties from one gun, then roll to see how many casualties another gun inflicts. everything must be done together, and casualties must be done for all weapons at the same time.

  4. #3
    Ender of Threads Wraith's Avatar
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    "Remove Casualties (shooting section)", BGB pages 26-27.

    The very first line of this section states "Once the number of hits and wounds has been determined, the player that owns the target unit must remove any casualties". This indicates that casualty removal is done after all the shooting's finished.

    The example given later on in the section details a Marine squad taking hits from Bolters, a Krak missile, and a Meltagun. All of the casualties are done at the same time - removing two for the Krak and Melta hits, and then rolling saves for the Bolter hits, all at once. So yes - since all the shots come in at the same time, all the saves/deaths happen at the same time, too.

    The "Torrent of fire" rule is a slight exception to this (it's detailed in the middle of this same section)... If you take a lot of wounds at once, the shooter can force a particular model (Character, Heavy weapon, Sergeant...) to take a save personally - you still get to choose what hit to save against, so you can still opt to take a burst cannon hit and save the fusion blaster for a grunt.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member aussiedave's Avatar
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    Thanks very much guys,

    I was sure that was how it was played, I knew I had read it somewhere but couldn't for the life of me find it (thanks for the page referance). I was really surprised that a GW staffer told me that he played those rules mentioned above, if anybody should know they should, alas it doesn't seem to work that way sometimes.

    Thanks again

    Dave
    I don't care what you say. I found a lightsaber in my garage and that makes me a Jedi

  6. #5
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    Maybe he was getting it mixed up with the idea of the XV8 unit whittling down the enemy unit till just the Commander/Character model remained, which would then allow a second friendly unit to pop him (subject to the usual IC status rules, of course).

    That's the way I try to work it anyway.

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  7. #6
    Dark Eldar Gerbil Splata's Avatar
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    he isn't talking about the targetting matrtix or whatever it was you guys were talking about 3 days ago in relation to the hammerhead is he? i'm not a tau player, so i could have it wrong. but from what i remember you guys talking about, you could decide whether to fire it or not, so it didn't overheat. is this anyhting to do with it? have i got the entire thing wrong? or shall i just mumble into another corner somewhere?
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    Member skyfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eiglepulper View Post
    Maybe he was getting it mixed up with the idea of the XV8 unit whittling down the enemy unit till just the Commander/Character model remained, which would then allow a second friendly unit to pop him (subject to the usual IC status rules, of course).
    Quote Originally Posted by Splata View Post
    he isn't talking about the targetting matrtix or whatever it was you guys were talking about 3 days ago in relation to the hammerhead is he? i'm not a tau player, so i could have it wrong. but from what i remember you guys talking about, you could decide whether to fire it or not, so it didn't overheat. is this anyhting to do with it? have i got the entire thing wrong? or shall i just mumble into another corner somewhere?
    Combining these two suggestions: The battlesuit support system Sensor - Target Lock (Codex Tau p17) allows the equipped model to target a separate enemy unit, so if the cannons wipe out everyone else, the blaster with target lock could then knock off the IC. (This is assuming that the IC immediately counts as a separate unit when the rest of its unit is obliterated, which I can't find a rule for but does make sense to me.)

    HOWEVER... I believe that, because all shooting for a single unit is resolved at the same time, the battlesuit with the target lock has to declare which unit it is firing at at the same time as the rest of its unit. At this point the IC is still part of its unit, and therefore not able to be targeted in this manner.

  9. #8
    Senior Member mackdawg's Avatar
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    Read the rules better guys. Pg. 22 of the BGB down at the bottom of the page under the rolling dice to hit. "Alternatively, you can simply make seperate dice rolls for different weapons or shooters, but as long as it's clear which dice roll represents which shots"

    The rules doesn't say when your opponent removes his causilities. It depends on the person playing. I have seen some people play where they roll all the hits and wounds of the primary weapon, resolve causilities, then roll all the hits and wounds of the special weapons, and remove the remaining causilities. Now wise players will simply say roll all of your hits and wounds however you choose and then make the appropiate save rolls and remove all causilities at once. Again, it is between the players
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    Member skyfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mackdawg View Post
    Read the rules better guys. Pg. 22 of the BGB down at the bottom of the page under the rolling dice to hit. "Alternatively, you can simply make seperate dice rolls for different weapons or shooters, but as long as it's clear which dice roll represents which shots"

    The rules doesn't say when your opponent removes his causilities. It depends on the person playing. I have seen some people play where they roll all the hits and wounds of the primary weapon, resolve causilities, then roll all the hits and wounds of the special weapons, and remove the remaining causilities. Now wise players will simply say roll all of your hits and wounds however you choose and then make the appropiate save rolls and remove all causilities at once. Again, it is between the players
    Well, the BGB p22 quote is just talking about the rolling of the dice; the actual hits are still considered simultaneous. Notice that all hits must still be accounted for before proceeding to the rolls to wound. Of course, as you say, those rules can be modified by house rules, so it is indeed up to the players. But if we assume that this rules question is with regard to the official rules, I don't think there is room for any option.

  11. #10
    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    The rules doesn't say when your opponent removes his causilities.
    They sure do. The handy table on p18. The entire unit does step 1, the entire unit does step 2, the you get the idea. Removing casualties happens after all shots have been fired, all wounds rolled and all saves attempted. People who pull their models as their opponent rolls individual hits are cheating themselves (or possibly cheating their opponent if there's a majority armor situation involved and they avoid taking saves on the minority group by pulling models and recounting with each to-hit roll.) There are exceptions where templates or multiple blasts are involved, but that's not in the scope of the original post.

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