Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
The art of beating power gamers in 40K.
Otherwise known as "enjoying the game as much as possible at the rage of other players".
Or the 'how to REALLY piss the Powergamers off' Tactica.
Now, we all know that in 40K, there are some units that are more effective than others.
And there are some units, which, when used together, are quite the indestructible force.
Just because they look good on paper, or just because you've never lost, doesn't mean you're infallible. So therefore, if you base the entire joy you have with playing 40K into winning with no regards as to just mucking around, each loss that comes your way will make you REALLY angry or at least send you into the depths of a tweaking session that, quite frankly, doesn't do that much for your list or your sanity.
Unfortunately, there is almost only going to be Space Marine Variants listed in lists or major tactics, as this is my major force, and I can provide a better analogy for them. Apologies go to the players of the other races.
DEATH TO THE POWER GAMER
Yes, you read right.
This is the most dreaded form of gamer known to man. Making a force that requires NO effort to win with, similar to using obsessively using twin Needlers in Halo 2, or a Zerg rush. Neither of which makes you friends or uses any skill. This is the core of Powergaming.
No imagination there. We all know the config well after 4 months of asking around, and those who have these lists are always laughing.
- Master with nothing OR Jump Chappie
- 10 Assault Marines with 2 Plasma pistols & Fist sarge... x3 with Traits, or x1 without
- 8 Devs with 4 Missile Launchers... x3. (If Assault Marines are elites, then no Tank Hunters, if Devs can be Elites, they will be).
- LST. Always alone or in 2 at the most filling up all the Fast attack (comes in 3 groups if Assault Marines are elite, 2 if not).
- 5-man Sniper Scout squads OR 5 man Dual Plasma (Gun & Cannon) Tac squads.
- Whirlwinds if Devs are Elites.
With these lists, there are only 3-4 LSTs. You sit tight and shoot the crap out of them. So much for 'mr. perfect fast skimmer, ONE of them had to be a 6!" And for being able to blow up from anything s4+ I wouldn't brag about rushing straight into Bolter rapid-fire range.
Also, If you face the Jump pack Chaplain, there will ALWAYS be at least 1 10-man Assault squad, but possibly 3. The answer is simple, shoot at them from afar and keep at it. Not too much finesse but it works, and when it's time to be charged, keep an ablative layer of 5-strong weaklings, or scout squads to take the brunt. They WILL die.
You will also possibly fight Scouts. They will be Snipers. A quick freemy death is easy for 4+saves, as just about any upgrade weapon can pierce that, and most vehicles can just annihilate scouts. Take them out in the time you have and it makes things easier. Being pinned is no fun, but you can still live with it.
This is ALL of the foreward element.
If you face the Master, the Ld10 is for pretty much auto-passing the Target priority checks. Don't go foreward. Anything within 48" and in LoS to the Devs will be blasted, they may not, but it's more fun to annoy the powergamer by keeping out of his effective zones.
Then the Whirlwinds, they Pin with some damage, but meh. Same range, just no LoS barriers, so what?
Independant Characters, despite their supposed 'versetility' are oft used for Assaulty roles. You will rarely if ever see a Commander, Chaplain, or Librarian with less than 6 attacks on the charge. Keep them away from you by throwing pinning fire at his squad (always a fun thing to do because he can't leave, beware the Chappy, though. Immunity sucks).
Space Marine Traits are amazing, they let you mould your Chapter into a unique fighting force... Who am I kidding?
Everyone picks the assaulty ones. If not the Assaulty ones, the Dev = Elites one.
The Powergamer's traits are easily picked by being one of two things:
Not that there are never 2 advantages, because only taking 1 tank, or 1 LandSpeeder squad, or having no Elites (which are replaced with Devs or Jets, so it's puzzling) is 'so not cool, why limit yourself?'
- Blessed be the Warriors & Eye to Eye
- Honour your Wargear & Eye to Eye
So: In summary, the best way to beat a SM powergaming list is to sit back and shoot hell out of his things at they come, forcing too many saves and generally overwhelming them with bullets, then in the last turn or two, moving your faster troops out of your deployment zone and taking any objectives/table quarters on his half... You don't need to take them, just to contend. If you played right, you've got no enemies in your side to contend you due to his limited mobility.
Done! You now control 2 quarters & contest the other 2. You beat a powergamer!
Note, this is not infallible, as with all things.
Note, if you are a powergamer and don't like how "I can actually kill your things"... Good. Go ahead & crunch numbers at this idea, it still works every time for the stupid 'Emperor's Pawninators' Army.
"Heh, whoops to you."
If ever possible, make army lists that don't make sense. How do you want to make your SM force? DO it. Take some advice, but tell how you're envisiging the play. If the advice is worth its salt, it won't be the powergaming solutions, it'll be tweaking. A good advisor know how to help an idea, no matter how outlandish it is.
In example, back in the days of 3rd ed Eldar, Warp Spiders were no longer a viable CQC unit despite rediculously high Initiative, and Power weaponned Exarch. Using them as such was a hanging offense... Not any more. The Eldar are an amazing role-model for making apparently dumb plays. Everything has one role, it's how you mix them that counts. With SMurfs, it only matters how many Missile Launchers with Tank Hunters you have. S9 Krak missiles or blast Frags at 48", your choice. No skill.
An example of an apparently stupid ploy is to place so much into one squad (any Command squad with an Apothecary and 2 Plasma Cannons is sure to generate the lulz), then place an obvious support net around it. Watch as they either ignore such obvious tactics and get picked apart by a decently choreographed play, or kill it to get the victory points and are left WAY open to a surprise detachment.
BUT to do this you must be smart. VERY smart. Making provision for how powergamery the list is, you may have to adjust your own formation, plays, & movement strategy.
BOTH OF YOU, DANCE LIKE YOU WANT TO WIN!
Because it IS fun to think.
The anti-powergamer army is very hard to pull off. You're required to exert a massive amount of thought into how you do things.
But there's a trick to it.
How does each unit entry supposedly work? How does the Codex state it fits in the game? Think of the cheesiest, least imaginative method possible. That's the powergamer's way. They dislike Termies because they can do anything, but aren't as fast as a Turbo-boosted bike with Fleet... So what?
Therein lies the fun. Make a unit selection, but use it in a wierd way.
Using a twin Plascannon Command squad to Infiltrate with an Apothecary rules, but you won't see it. Using a Trait to Infiltrate Devs and giving them 4 Multi-meltas, x2... Hell, giving Devs a Multi-melta ANYWHERE...
an ablative Command squad for your Jump pack Commander... Give them Furious charge and strip them off when the wounds roll in. When he's alone, he's got a fast move, and Furious Assault.
There are a million uses for things if you give a support network, too.
You can Outrange a Railgun with 2 Whirlwinds & a Lascannon min/max squad or 2 (not telling how, you must figure it out yourself). you CAN out-melee Khornate & Blood Angel armies, it's a matter of REALLY working your brain. Not too many players out there do this, and so the powergamng exists in force.
Powergaming was born from selfishness & greed... then perpetuated by the lazy. It is not really playing.
IN OTHER WORDS
What you're supposedly taking home with you...
A deep hatred for all things I stand for (Powergamers).
A slight bit of insight (people who read this and go "huh?")
A desire to do zany lists (new guys don't pick this up from me, they're born with it)
Solidifying of said desire (experienced players who want something new)
Inspiration (1% of you)
If you try the advice and it fails, it's nobody's fault. The real essence of gaming is to just play. Enjoy a game. Make the army fluffy even if it's not viable. Make your fluff dangerous if you must. But prepare to lose many games at 1st if you do decide to adopt the wierd... It's hard to get used to.
But as long as you analyse the powergaming lists out there and realise how one-track they are, you can counter them perfectly. Just take the exact opposite track (and ANY army list can follow it with a bit of skill). You'll see.
And if nothing else, my record shows it works.<E!_Mance is not responsible for loss of games,
models, friends, or sanity that result in following
any of his advice. Yay.
Last edited by Katie Drake; December 6th, 2006 at 04:25.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
How about playing a hoard army, and measuring every single distance for each model when you move a squad.
Heh heh, like to see that with a massive Tyranid army
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
HOW TO PISS OFF ANY PLAYER
"WAIT! NO! NREARGH!"
Disclaimer: This is from a Marines point of view, but you should be old enough to appropriate units by now.
Tau: Ignore Broadsides. Tau are a vert Strategic race so won't be able to counter a shift with the change of pace. Every time Broadsides are fielded, they'r expected to be blasted and/or assaulted heavily. Ignoring them leaves a MASSIVE hole in the rigid team.
Dark Eldar: 5-man sniper Scout squads x 3+ in front of your main formation. Close to Cheesey tactics, but they sit in front of & close to your real soldiers, take a charge after laying some pinning fire... then they die quickly to open up a big foray of rapid-firey death.
Eldar: Deepstriking Termies are the bomb. only 5 men needed, and you can make the effect of a 10-man squad by just fielding 2 5-man squads with 1 Assault Cannon each. Guaranteed to cause some disturbances... That and Heavy Bolter/Plasma Devs with a tagalong Las Razorback...
IG: Meltabombs on Assault Marines as they deepstrike to rape Basilisks & Russes. a LOT of Scouts & possibly a few Infiltrating Vets. The sudden Plethora of close-in soldiers will be difficult for them to handle, and provides a nice break for your LAND RAIDER CRUSADER to arrive in.
Chaos: Khorne - Vindicators. Slaanesh - Jump Pack Marines. Nurgle - Range. Tzeench - numbers. Undivided - Pinning, LOTS of it. Bomb - Fear of the Darkness. Defiler - Deepstrike termies (5 man). Abaddon - Ignore him completely except when in CQC.
Marines: Wait for him to come at you with his few foreward units and trounce them, then move in for the objectives at the end. It's all written above, really...
Tyranids: Every Tac squad is 6-strong and has a HB back that they sit in. Dev squads in formation with 4 HBs each.
Necrons: All sorts of guns and get into the immortal 'what weapon effect actually works against the Monoloth?' argument. That and just rip it to shreds with some Multi-melta Speeders. Assault Termies.
All armies: GLUA!
Grasshopper Librarian of Ultimate Annoyance.
Always hasa Jump pack & Fury of the Ancients. Try Joshuah on for size...
Epistolary with Might of Heroes OR Fear of the Darkness and Fury of the Ancients
CCW, Force weapon, Psychic hood, Familiar, Iron Halo, T Hon, Jump Pack.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; December 5th, 2006 at 17:14.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
Ah, the 'we all like to be a bit like Illidan!' post...
*puts an arm around Shoal07's shoulder and talks in an explanitory way*
Maaaate, I may be referred to as 'assface wozzizname' and seem to be agitated... But it's only the internet, why get angry? I just think its about time some tactics on beating powergaming lists were put up and did a few... albeit long-winded, but yeah.
So, agitated = not me.
Also, note how it says "how to annoy the enemy", not kill. I'm saying now (as a fair warning) that you'll get smashed of you follow this to the letter, but it'll annoy the powergamers/enemy players no end... but in a good way.
So, if you though I was getting riled up over unimaginative players, you couldn't be more wrong. ^^
And besides, you really think the advice will actually win so much? If so them by all means, tell me how it goes!
So there. There are no absolutes.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; December 5th, 2006 at 17:58.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
Seems to me that you are advertising and advocating the very virtues that you so vividly hate, those of annoyance and interruption.
If you "truly" don't like something then common sense would dictate avoidance not confrontation, and perhaps communication could provide some massaging relief for your inner anger.
I don't believe for one minute that a polarised "power" army could be inately powerful against all comers as they are not balanced enough to survive in the real world of tournaments. If I get beaten by a legal "power army" (I refer to this as themed), I like to see how their score averages out over the long run and I am usually pleasantly rewarded to see that they don't figure in the top placings and I do. In short they are one hit wonders not worth worrying about,
I seriously recommend therapy for anger management if this type of behaviour really does bother you that much! As long as the game is played within the rules then I can't see your beef.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
Love the idea behind the post, it used to be one of my delights with Siam Hann to face up with an army that was considered naff (loads of bikes with the old codex rules) and take appart powergamers, generally SH relied on getting your opponent wound up so the power gamers were the ideal
Everything you have been told is a lie!