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VoteWar MkIV - Info Thread

9K views 149 replies 23 participants last post by  TheWamp 
#1 · (Edited)
The time is fast approaching for the next VoteWar to take place. Once the mini is over, a Grudge Match between the Dark Angels Clan and the Space Wolves Clan will be taking place. VoteWar MkIV will start two weeks after that, which puts us right around April 13th. I know I originally said April 1st, but I think people would like a bit of a break before the big stuff hits.

The Rules -

VoteWar MkIV will be a double elimination tournament. Lose twice, and your list is removed. 24 lists will be participating, and I have one extra list of my own making to use as the "seed" list.

The seed list is when we have an odd number of contestants each round. The seed list can not score wins, but can cost you a win. The seed list is not built to take on any one army and is very balanced.

Rounds will run three days. All rounds end at 1pm Pacific Standard Time.

Voting is done as normal. The main vote will be for the list that is most likely to accomplish the mission. Wiping out the enemy is not the only thing to consider - the mission is and always will be the most important factor. Fluff votes can be cast if the voter wishes, and any fluff votes will used to decide the winner in case of a tie. All votes must be in bold to count.


In order for a vote to count, you must list reasons to why you think the battle will play out in such a fashion. "I agree" statements are not enough - you must word your own reasons, even if they've been stated before. Please try to read other people's arguements before deciding upon your vote. Though some people get long winded, they usually make extremely good arguements.


Each mission will be played with the following rules - Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points. Lists will be made out to 1850 points. Banned armies include Armoured Company, Kroot Mercenaries, and Harlequins. Also, the new Tau Empires is not legal, as it has not been out for very long and not many people are familiar with it yet. Next VoteWar we'll include the new Tau Empires codex and disallow the old Tau.

Lastly, once a list has been submitted to me, you may not change it. This is to preserve my sanity. So make sure that the list you submit to me is the list you want to run.

Current SitRep -
I have 20 confirmed lists. I still have room for 4 more players, and there are a couple of veterans that I'll be hounding to see if they're still interested. No pressure if they're not, however.

EDIT -
Submissions are now closed. I apologize to anyone who missed out, but there's always the next VoteWar.

I've tried to PM everyone back who has sent me a list with either list fixes or acceptance notices. If I have not PM'd you and you have sent me a list, send me a PM to make sure I have it. I probably do, but better safe than sorry.

I'll worry about formatting the lists as well. They'll be in the same format as last VoteWar, since that seemed to go over well with everyone.

I think that's it for the official business. Now on to the taunting.

Expect my list to be very competitive this time around. I went easy on ya'll the last two VoteWars, but not this time. I'll grind everyone beneath my heel!

Oh, and good luck to everyone, and all that.
 
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#2 ·
Woo, I was wondering when this post was going to happen.

Allright I'll be sure to be ready for the 13th.

Caluin said:
Expect my list to be very competitive this time around. I went easy on ya'll the last two VoteWars, but not this time. I'll grind everyone beneath my heel!
I can see taking this two ways:
1) You're copying my list.
2) You are actually going to vote for your own list this time, perhaps?

in all seriousness though I very much doubt that any of us would mind if you stuck up for your own list in the next votewar. Not doing so puts you at a slight handycap I think. I think farness would be served just fine, by simply not banning/deleting posts of people voting against you & not throwing out votes that related to your list. Wich I'm under the assumption that you already do.
 
#3 ·
JORMAGI said:
I can see taking this two ways:
1) You're copying my list.
2) You are actually going to vote for your own list this time, perhaps?
Actually, my list is a major divergence from my normal lists. People may actually end up being quite surprised at what list I've entered.

The Seed list has "Caluin" written all over it however. (It's actually my tournament Chaos list - some of you may remember a version of it from VoteWar MkII.)

JORMAGI said:
in all seriousness though I very much doubt that any of us would mind if you stuck up for your own list in the next votewar. Not doing so puts you at a slight handycap I think. I think farness would be served just fine, by simply not banning/deleting posts of people voting against you & not throwing out votes that related to your list. Wich I'm under the assumption that you already do.
You're right - I don't throw out any votes that involve my list. This is just so people can't claim I'm favouring it.

As for voting for it, that's a handicap I don't mind taking. It also makes my life easier as I don't feel obligated to argue for my list, like I'm often prone to do. It gives me an easy excuse to tell myself that I don't need to butt in and correct people's viewpoints. Heh.

Also, as points of interest, I have three open slots and one person who's working on submitting one. So that leaves effectively two slots left. If demand is high enough, I can raise the limit a little bit. We will see.

After I close submissions I'll give a break down of what armies are most represented this VoteWar for those of you that find that interesting.
 
#4 ·
In previous VWs if people have had special rules that require rolling they have mostly been ignored, for example the DE Wych Drugs. People make arguments based on them assaulting 12" or other things.

Could you roll to see which drugs they get each game possibly? Similarly with Death Company perhaps?

I think that could help VW out a little.

I may be able to coerce another list out of someone I know.

Wings
 
#5 ·
Im pretty sure ive seen a heads up on that list, and im pretty sure i know exactly how to crush it.
:ninja:

Also, i submit, that for deathcompany, the number is ALWAYS 5 for the chaplain (because thats the average or 4, 5, and 6. + half the number of squad the Blood angle fields, powerweapons/fists are used when its most adventageous to do so. So, against IG, you probably dont need a first in your DC, so you might leave it on a scout sgt, and see he gets lucky against a tank ext.

La de da- Die everyone :yes:
 
#6 ·
Caluin, the link in your sig is broken, I think. It just goes to the Librarium-Online forums page instead of to a specific thread.


And the delay works well, it would be criminal to start a tourny on April Fools Day and have Harlequins banned. Just ain't right.
 
#7 ·
ShadowcatX said:
Caluin, the link in your sig is broken, I think. It just goes to the Librarium-Online forums page instead of to a specific thread.
It was broken! Thanks for pointing that out. I've redirected it to the Info Thread.

Silver Wings said:
Could you roll to see which drugs they get each game possibly? Similarly with Death Company perhaps?
I might be able to do that, so long as everyone else is okay with it. I'll have to work something up for the Death Company since they have a random chance. Instead of just taking the average, I can just roll it out and see how it comes out. Adds the factor of variability that can sometimes work against you, rather than just assuming the average for all games.

ForgedintheFurnaceofWar said:
Im pretty sure ive seen a heads up on that list, and im pretty sure i know exactly how to crush it.
You may be the only person who knows what the list is similar to, but it is not that list. I've changed it dramatically. It is much, much improved now.
 
#8 ·
Caluin said:
I might be able to do that, so long as everyone else is okay with it. I'll have to work something up for the Death Company since they have a random chance. Instead of just taking the average, I can just roll it out and see how it comes out. Adds the factor of variability that can sometimes work against you, rather than just assuming the average for all games.

Sounds good to me. Randomness also ties up some confusion with these arguments. However, only for things where each result will dramatically change the game. Don't roll, for example, ranger disruption, as the effect can be predicted: some will be pinned, some put in reserves.
 
#11 ·
iamspartacus said:
i am interested in submitting a list caluin, should i pm you? what points is it at, and is there anywhere i should read about first?
Yes, just PM me the list. If I have open slots, I'll include yours - but know that I'm running very low on free slots.

As for reading material, everything you should need to know is in the first post of this thread and in the "What is VoteWar?" thread.
 
#12 ·
ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
If we dont use averages for blood angles, then we shouldnt use averages for anything else.

Especially not a cheese baller eldar list.
Oh, I don't think we need to randomize blood angles. No matter what they roll, it doesn't change the outcome too much. However, for the DE combat drugs, each roll is ENTIRELY different, and has a very different effect. I guess what I'm saying is that in the eldar or BA example, the roll determines the degree of the effect. In the DE case, the roll determines the effect, so the DE should be randomized, and not the other too.

Also, for the record, not all aliatoc lists are cheesy!
 
#14 ·
SilverMane said:
Cool so how many places left?
Not many. It looks like I'll be closing submissions today. I'll have an exact number later on today. But I can tell you it is more than 24, but that's all right.

SilverMane said:
Caliun for some odd reason i cant seem to remember if i ent you a list, did i?
I have a list from you. I may not have error corrected it yet, though.

SilverMane said:
P.S. When is the Grugde match start?
I think it starts today and runs for a week. I'm not the one running it, so I'm not totally sure.
 
#16 ·
Good luck all.


Hey Caluin, did my list get in?

If it did, I'd like to start the trash talk by saying that it will get to at least the semi-semi finals. :)


Well, I guess that's not saying much.
 
#17 ·
Oh no, not this again. Last time it was a competition to see who had increased thier armies lethality by how much.

This VW i've entered an army list from something i've only just started. As a road test as it were. However well it does i'm happy as long as it wins once.

How do people feel VWMini went? I thought it was a little off the mark. Too much tailorng to terrain and combat.
 
#18 · (Edited)
SilverMane said:
Whos running it then?
TheWamp, I believe. Also, I just read somewhere else that the official start date is the 26th, so on Sunday.

Grey said:
Hey Caluin, did my list get in?
Ofcourse it did! You were one of the earlier submissions.

I'm closing submissions. I have 28 confirmed lists, and I think that'll be plenty. The lists are extremely varied which should make for a good VoteWar. For instance, we have only one Eldar list, but we also have a Witch Hunters and a Daemonhunters list. Space Marines are still the majority, but that's to be expected.

I think the only army not represented in this VoteWar is Necrons, and ofcourse some of the specialist armies such as Death Guard, Black Templars and what not.

 
#19 · (Edited)
Hmm witchhunters. . . so are we going to be giving the opposing HQ's Psychic Apocalypse? (if they qualify) I've never been clear on how that worked in a tournement setting. If so that would be another one of those roll things where the roll makes a big difference on what exactly happens, it's a choice between 3 very different psychic powers.

Other than that, I find it kinda funny that the army that won last time didn't show. I'm happy to see that there is a nice spread, sounds like it will be an interesting votewar. Thanks for all the hard work Caluin.
 
#20 ·
JORMAGI said:
Hmm witchhunters. . . so are we going to be giving the opposing HQ's Psychic Apocalypse? (if they qualify) I've never been clear on how that worked in a tournement setting. If so that would be another one of those roll things where the roll makes a big difference on what exactly happens, it's a choice between 3 very different psychic powers.
You know, I've never had that come up. I'm not exactly sure how that'd be handled. I've always assumed that the Adversaries rules are optional. The Psychic Apocalypse is the only thing that'd be viable since everything else requires points, but those psyker powers are just plain mean.

I honestly can't understand why anyone would want to play Witch Hunters if they can expect their opponents to be fielding a Psychic Apocalypse every game, especially when one third of those games include Puppet Dance.

I'm inclined to just say to treat it like any other normal army.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Caluin said:
I've always assumed that the Adversaries rules are optional.
Unfortunately its not optional by a literal reading of the rules.

Its a 'may use' option. Which means by strict interpretation, any player who is fighting as an adversary to Witch Hunters may choose to take the psychic appocolypse rules, provided they aren't:

1. Necrons.

2. Followers of Khorne.

Page 39 of the Witch hunters codex.


As to how effective they are, all battle sisters get a 5+ save versus all psychic attack, so that's something at least.

Oh, and all the WH wargear that only really comes into its own when facing off against a psyker. Things like the bolter/stake crossbow.

Mind you that 'may use' can swing the other way too. They don't have to use the rules.

EDIT: Having just read the rules for puppet dance, its pretty nasty indeed. Yeesh.

Soul shrives not bad either.

EDIT EDIT: Sorry for going so far off topic.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled votewar thread.
 
#22 ·
cont from Grey's list
3. Not already a Psyker.


My understanding is that I can take it without my opponents concent if they play witch hunters. All of the other options are also perfectly legal, mutants, apostate cardinal, rogue psyker. They however cost points, and therefor require prior knowlage that you are going to play against Witch Hunters to utilize.

Now just because it's 0 pts does that make it ok to take in a tournement, or does that constitute a change in a static list, and therefor not ok.

I personally don't care, I can see the merit of either approach. I personally always take it against my friends SoB. (Then again that's usually boosting an Arch Heretic LatD, so it makes sense fluffwise.) I can also understand how it wouldn't fit into a tournement setting.

I guess I was mostly curious to see if others knew how official tournements handled it.
 
#23 ·
JORMAGI said:
cont from Grey's list
3. Not already a Psyker.


My understanding is that I can take it without my opponents concent if they play witch hunters. All of the other options are also perfectly legal, mutants, apostate cardinal, rogue psyker. They however cost points, and therefor require prior knowlage that you are going to play against Witch Hunters to utilize.

Now just because it's 0 pts does that make it ok to take in a tournement, or does that constitute a change in a static list, and therefor not ok.

I personally don't care, I can see the merit of either approach. I personally always take it against my friends SoB. (Then again that's usually boosting an Arch Heretic LatD, so it makes sense fluffwise.) I can also understand how it wouldn't fit into a tournement setting.

I guess I was mostly curious to see if others knew how official tournements handled it.
I don't like the idea of including the adversaries rules. There are several reasons:

1. Fluff: it makes no sense to have a psyker of that variety from marines, IG, eldar, tau, DH, or nids.

2: they aren't really that balanced

3: Caluin could simply executively decide "may use" means that they've decided not to.

However, if we do decide to use it, roll before the game, like DE combat drugs. I'm flexible, but I'd prefer no is my stance, I suppose.

Also, I have a question, for those of you who are veteran tournament-goers: are they usually used there (in the rare case that a WH army would actually be used in a tournament...)?
 
#24 ·
Well, while it may be a 'may use' option, I don't think we're going to implement it. There are a few things we already sort of skimp on to make things run more smoothly, and I feel comfortable with letting this one slide too.

For instance, in order to make a Psychich Apocalypse, you'd have to know you're playing against Witch Hunters. Which means that the Witch Hunters player would know that you planned to take this uber-psyker against him, and would've planned accordingly by taking a few more anti-psyker weapons.

Also, I'd have to deal with making sure I knew who was coming up against the Witch Hunters list before hand and have them pick which model to be selected, all before I posted lists, which makes for some interesting time issues. I'll pass on that, I think.


Grey said:
EDIT EDIT: Sorry for going so far off topic.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled votewar thread.
I didn't think it was off topic...
 
#25 ·
Well, TheWamp should be putting up the Grudge votewars around tommorrow (Dark Angels versus Space Wolves)... so make sure you vote! Clan members of Sons of Russ and OotWS aren't allowed to vote, but that's to be expected because we'd just vote for our own side and whoever has more members would win.
 
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