40K VWMkV - Final Round - Battle #66 - Dark Eldar versus Dark Angels

[Caluin]

Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

Mission Type - Secure and Control

***REMATCH ALERT!***
This is a rematch! Both forces have had an extra 300 points worth of forces added to their lists. They are appended at the end of each list. Note that the extra units will enter battle via Reserves.
***REMATCH ALERT!***


Ghostwind Kabal
Dark Eldar


HQ: 152
Elites: 0
Troops: 942
Fast Attack: 0
Heavy Support: 405

Archon Lok-Nar:
Punisher; Tormentor Helm; Shadow Field; Combat Drugs; Animus Vitae; Plasma Grenades

9x Warriors (Archon joins this squad):
6x Splinter Rifle; 1x Splinter Cannon; 1x Blaster
Sybarite w/ Punisher; Tormentor Helm; Plasma Grenades
Raider w/ Horrorfex; Dark Lance

10x Warriors:
7x Splinter Rifle; 1x Splinter Cannon; 1x Blaster
Sybarite w/ Punisher; Tormentor Helm; Plasma Grenades
Raider w/ Horrorfex; Dark Lance

10x Warriors:
7x Splinter Rifle; 1x Splinter Cannon; 1x Blaster
Sybarite w/ Punisher; Tormentor Helm; Xenospasm Grenade Launcher; Plasma Grenades
Raider w/ Horrorfex; Dark Lance

10x Warriors:
7x Splinter Rifle; 1x Splinter Cannon; 1x Blaster
Sybarite w/ Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Plasma Grenades
Raider w/ Horrorfex; Dark Lance

10x Warriors:
7x Splinter Rifle; 1x Splinter Cannon; 1x Blaster
Sybarite w/ Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Plasma Grenades
Raider w/ Horrorfex; Dark Lance

Ravager:
3x Dark Lances; Night Shield

Ravager:
3x Disintegrators; Night Shield

Ravager:
3x Disintegrators; Night Shield


RELIEF FORCES -

10x Mandrakes

10x Mandrakes


------------------


Dark Angels

HQ: 400
Elites: 0
Troops: 360
Fast Attack: 480
Heavy Support: 260

Deathwing Codicier:
Terminator Armour; Stubborn; Fear of the Darkness; Furious Charge

4x Deathwing Command Terminators:
2x Storm Bolter & Powerfist; 2x Assault Cannon & Powerfist, Drop Pod; Furious Charge

5x Tactical Marines:
4x Bolters; 1x Plasma cannon

5x Tactical Marines:
4x Bolters; 1x Plasma cannon

5x Tactical Marines:
4x Bolters; 1x Plasma cannon

5x Tactical Marines:
4x Bolters; 1x Plasma cannon

2x Ravenwing Land Speeders
Assault Cannon & Heavy Bolter

2x Ravenwing Land Speeders
Assault Cannon & Heavy Bolter

2x Ravenwing Land Speeders
Assault Cannon & Heavy Bolter

Vindicator:
Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter; Extra Armour

Vindicator:
Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter; Extra Armour


Relief Force -
5x Deathwing Terminators
3x Storm Bolter & Powerfist; 2x Assault Cannon & Powerfist, Drop Pod

[darkreever]

Its like fighting the Saim Hann all over again, but this time the skimmers are bigger and there are twenty more enemies that can remain hidden for half the game.

Fluff vote is split even down the middle, minor class kabal vs dark angels with all their goodness.

Wow.......gonna have to wait and see what some of the arguements will be for both sides before making a vote. I think this one really does need to have a lot of thought put into the vote regardless of who is voted for.

[TheWamp]

As dark reaver said, this is alot like the battle verse the Siam Hann...

Except that the skimmers here have worse guns (the raiders) or have to remain vulnerable to penetrating hits (ravagers). The night shields will help the ravagers, but plasma cannons will be wonderful against them, since they can actually penetrate

Those raiders are like paper. The LSTs will rip them to shreds... that'll leave the warriors on the ground.

Vindicators will sweep the clustered warriors nicely

And finally, as far as secure and control goes, the marines will be able to move on the objective later on, largely unopposed by the DE (because not many of them will be scoring). Of course, here the marines won't be very useful, since most of them won't be scoring, but those terminators should arrive after the AP 2 dangers have largely been removed/entangled, and the land speeders and vindicators will largely be alive.

Now, this is overly straightforward, but generally, I see the DA as pulling out a little bit on top.

I vote DA

[Lost Nemesis]

Wow ... almost a repeat of last battle, and will certainly be just as close. This is going to be a toughy, and I'm not certain I want to argue as strongly as I did before... it got pretty heated last battle. :yes:

But this is what I've got:

Dark Eldar

• They have a total of eight Skimmers, allowing for mobile forces - much more mobile than the Dark Angels, which can easily take the objectives
• There are a total of eight Dark Lances and five Blasters, which are capable of making toast of vehicles and Marines alike
• Six Disintegrators = Marine death, easily capable of taking out a squad of Marines per turn

Dark Angels

• Strong weaponry, easily able to take out Skimmers
• Land Speeders are the biggest advantage here, as in the other battle
• The Marines are slow, and will have trouble taking over far-away Loot counters

Except that the skimmers here have worse guns (the raiders) or have to remain vulnerable to penetrating hits (ravagers). The night shields will help the ravagers, but plasma cannons will be wonderful against them, since they can actually penetrate

Worse guns? The Dark Lances will have a fairly easy time taking out the enemy Land Speeders, if within LOS. Less shots, maybe, but I wouldn't say worse guns, simply because it's just like a Bright Lance.

Those raiders are like paper. The LSTs will rip them to shreds... that'll leave the warriors on the ground.

If the LSTs can get in range, the Raiders will fall very easily. However, the LSTs are very similar to paper, themselves, and by getting in range and LOS of any of the Raiders, they will be putting themselves at huge risk from other Raiders and the Ravagers.

Vindicators will sweep the clustered warriors nicely

If, again, they are within range, which they may not actually be. Not to mention, there is plenty of anti-tank in the Dark Eldar list to counter the Vindicators (because, I'm assuming that the Dark Angels are going to employ a similar strategy and the LSTs will miraculously not be in LOS), especially the Ravager with the Dark Lances.

And finally, as far as secure and control goes, the marines will be able to move on the objective later on, largely unopposed by the DE (because not many of them will be scoring). Of course, here the marines won't be very useful, since most of them won't be scoring, but those terminators should arrive after the AP 2 dangers have largely been removed/entangled, and the land speeders and vindicators will largely be alive.

Don't underestimate the Dark Eldar hitting power. If the LSTs come into range/LOS to kill some Raiders, others will be there, along with Ravagers, to rip them to shreds in return - which will be a very interesting battle, I believe. I agree that the Marines won't be too useful, but I don't think the Terminators will arrive after the AP2 dangers are gone - not to mention, the Terminators will not be able to cope with CC against the DE Archon, which can easily tie them up.

Now, this is overly straightforward, but generally, I see the DA as pulling out a little bit on top.

Maybe in all-out damaging capabilities, but I see the Dark Eldar being able to take forward positions very early on in the game, and being able to find some place to bunker down - either in cover or LOS - and try to hold the Loot counters, or just sweep in at the end.

It's going to be extremely close, to be honest. I'm having trouble deciding which to vote for, but I find that the Dark Eldar list could be used slightly more destructively than the DA list.

I vote for the Dark Eldar.

As far as fluff goes - the Dark Eldar are everything they should be with a fast, raiding force, while the DA is a little too much in the min-maxing area for me.

The Dark Eldar are fluffier, too.

Note: I may throw in a few other arguments, but this is starting to kill my brain, all of these arguments and such. So, don't expect too many wonderful responses to any arguments against this post. :yes:

[ZombieKiller]

Dark Eldar for the win and for fluff.

With the ability of their entire army (besides ravagers/mandrakes) of turbo-boosting behind cover and limiting the firing lanes and LOS from returning fire from the dark angels will win them the game. They will be in close combat by the 2nd (if not the first turn, will explain if have to) will hurt the angles tremendously. Once the dark eldar get in combat the game is won.

The terminators will fear the archon/ravagers when they land on the table. With the raiders taking out any of the tank threats (with the land speeders only downing a max of 3 raiders) they have to fear the return fire of the ravagers/raiders.

If the warriors don't make it in close combat the mandrakes certainly will. Popping out on the 3rd turn and getting in combat with any of the tac squads will really hinder the firing power of the angels. While the mandrakes might not have enough umph in combat, they certainly will scare the angels into doing something about them.

[TheWamp]

Worse guns? The Dark Lances will have a fairly easy time taking out the enemy Land Speeders, if within LOS. Less shots, maybe, but I wouldn't say worse guns, simply because it's just like a Bright Lance.

I meant worse as compared to starcannons and twin shurikannons. Which it is, odds wise. But you're right about the bright lance, and that was actually the reason I said it was worse: the brightlance was statistically worse

But convince me. I'm not too sure of my opinion on this battle, so I could easily be persuaded

Don't underestimate the Dark Eldar hitting power. If the LSTs come into range/LOS to kill some Raiders, others will be there, along with Ravagers, to rip them to shreds in return - which will be a very interesting battle, I believe. I agree that the Marines won't be too useful, but I don't think the Terminators will arrive after the AP2 dangers are gone - not to mention, the Terminators will not be able to cope with CC against the DE Archon, which can easily tie them up.

I actually wasn't putting too much of my faith into those LSTs, in my vote. I was thinking of them more as an attack unit. They'll take down 3 raiders, plasma cannons should take down the ravagers (given time, which they may not have, admittedly). Then, the LSTs may or may not survive to wreak more havoc. However, at that point, the damage is largely done. The DE aerial attack should be largely grounded, which gives the marines a significant advantage. Those vindicators could be dead, depending on if the DE thought they were a big threat, but if they weren't then, and they are living, they're dangerous at this point.

Basically my vote was based on the DA ability to so easily ground the enemy's attack.

If, again, they are within range, which they may not actually be. Not to mention, there is plenty of anti-tank in the Dark Eldar list to counter the Vindicators (because, I'm assuming that the Dark Angels are going to employ a similar strategy and the LSTs will miraculously not be in LOS), especially the Ravager with the Dark Lances.

I was assuming that they were trying to fly forward to get their warriors into cc... would this tactically not be the case?

Huh... well, I think I'll keep my vote for now. I can always remove or change it later...

[Lost Nemesis]

I was assuming that they were trying to fly forward to get their warriors into cc... would this tactically not be the case?

Like I said before, my responses are going to be worse and worse as this progresses, so bear with me.

This isn't always going to hold true, with them flying forward to get into CC - one, Warriors may seem okay in CC, but they aren't the best. High Initiative and decent WS are what make them good - low Strength, Toughness, and bad armour saves make them bad, if you catch my drift. Only the Sybarites with Agonisers will be doing any true lasting damage, and that might be good enough to take out the Marines, but what's the purpose?

If the Marines advance, they can be ignored unless within the 12" or so range where their Bolters will do damage. So, why not have the Warriors go out and claim/hold the objectives, forcing the DA to come to them (or, at least, the objectives that they are holding, not necessarily all of them). The Dark Eldar have more fast units, and can claim more objectives in a short amount of time, forcing the DA to come to them, in a way.

I would be just a little hesitant, as the DE player, to rush forward in hopes of getting into CC, especially with the LST's around. :yes:

[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

As with last battle, the landspeeders are the very very very good at killing AV10 things,

they down 3 per turn, no tank they shoot at survives.

The termintors, all deploying by drop pods, will shread two ravengers the turn they arrive.

The dark eldar will have a difficult time engaging the landspeeders without being exposed to the plasma cannons.

The vindicators will absorb fire, and shoot the heck out of the mandrakes..

Fear of the darkness will make hiding the warriors, and sending the raiders out to tank hunt, a very very bad idea, as they will almost all run off the board, and whatever doesnt, is gonna get shot to peices.

Dark Angles

(Note that the Mandrakes special deployment rule will override the Reserves rule)

How so?

Secondly, all forces where required to start in reserves, to my understand no exceptions, if the mantrakes are unable to start in reserves, then should probably not have been selected.

(note that all other forces must also deploy by reserves, even when they dont have the nessicary special rules, or have other rules, such as scout moves, infiltrate, ext.)

[Robizzle]

Dark Angels

The Saim-Hann had very efficent ways of taking down land speeders. Massed Starcannons aren't to be laughed at. However, the Raiders are significantly worse at the job. The Land Speeders will die en masse, but not before they take their toll.
If the Dark Lances have to shoot everyone, they're not gonna do very well anyway.

Both the terminator squads can Deep Strike around the place, so there's little can be done to them before they take their toll on the Dark Eldar. Not to mention the fact that Plasma Cannons really hurt them, too.

[ZombieKiller]

The vindicators will absorb fire, and shoot the heck out of the mandrakes..

The vindicators won't be able to shoot at the mandrakes until the 3rd turn... and by that time the mandrakes should make it into close combat the turn they decide to pop out.

Fear of the darkness will make hiding the warriors, and sending the raiders out to tank hunt, a very very bad idea, as they will almost all run off the board, and whatever doesnt, is gonna get shot to peices.

The only thing about the librarian is that he is stuck with the terminators. Thus having to wait until at least the 2nd turn to use FotD. By the time he lands, either it won't work as they are still inside the raiders OR they are already in close combat (havn't read the power lately, don't know if it works for units in close combat).