40K VoteWar MkVI - Round 1 - Battle 11 - Witch Hunters versus Witch Hunters

[Caluin]

Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner.

Mission Type - Patrol

Mission Rules - Special


Witch Hunters (Alpha List)



Cannoness – Attached to Celestian Bodyguard
Power Weapon; Stormbolter; Auspex

9x Celestians
6x Boltguns; 1x Multimelta; 1x Stormbolter
Veteran Sister w/ Power Weapon; Bolt Pistol
Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Searchlight

Inquisitor lord
Power Weapon; Inferno Pistol; Scourging
3x Acolytes; 2x Chirurgeons; 3x Crusaders
Land Raider w/ Extra Armor; Searchlight

Vindicare Assassin

10x Celestians
7x Boltguns; 1x Multimelta; 1x Stormbolter
Veteran Sister w/ Power Weapon; Bolt Pistol; Auspex
Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Searchlight

10x Celestians
7x Boltguns; 1x Multimelta; 1x Stormbolter
Veteran Sister w/ Power Weapon; Bolt Pistol; Auspex
Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Searchlight

10x Battle Sisters
7x Bolters; 2x Storm Bolters
Veteran Sister w/ Power Weapon; Bolt Pistol; Auspex
Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Searchlight

10x Battle Sisters
7x Bolters; 2x Storm Bolters
Veteran Sister w/ Power Weapon; Bolt Pistol; Auspex
Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Searchlight

Melta Torpedo Strike


Tactics:
the general idea is to swarm over to bolter range and let rip I use the inquisitor hq on foot as they are mostly a "counter charge"/ assassin protection unit. I hope that the assassin will be able to take out all the "hidden" lascannons in the woods/houses (or anything else that gives a 4/3+ cover save bleh...) 7 faith points in the army to be used as cc countermeasure/invo saves.

Faith Points - 7



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Witch Hunters (Beta List)


Canoness:
Blessed Weapon; Cloak of St. Aspira; Frag Grenades; Jump Pack

5x Celestians:
3x Bolters; 2x Melta Guns
Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

5x Celestians:
3x Bolters; 2x Melta Guns
Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

5x Celestians:
3x Bolters; 1x Melta Gun; 1x Heavy Bolter

10x Battle Sisters:
7x Bolters; 2x Melta Guns
Veteran Superior w/ Bolter
Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

10x Battle Sisters:
7x Bolters; 2x Melta Guns
Veteran Superior w/ Bolter
Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

10x Battle Sisters:
7x Bolters; 2x Melta Guns
Veteran Superior w/ Bolter
Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

10x Seraphim:
7x Twin Linked Bolt Pistols; 2x Twin Inferno Pistols
Veteran Superior w/ Eviscerator & Bolt Pistol

8x Retributors:
3x Bolters; 4x Heavy Bolters
Veteran Superior w/ Bolter

8x Retributors:
3x Bolters; 4x Heavy Bolters
Veteran Superior w/ Bolter

Exorcist:
Exorcist launcher; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers


Faith Points: 11
Total Models: 78
Total Vehicles: 6

[Katie Drake]

WH vs WH hmm? Okay...

Alpha list has some hard hitting units, especially the one in the Land Raider. The Melta warhead may cause some problems, but it's doubtful that it'll do too much unless it's keyed to the middle of the battlefield, in which case it's just as likely to hit its owners side as that of the enemy.

Alpha's Troops choices are low in number and somewhat poorly equipped - they're built to take out light infantry and nothing more. They don't have any flamers or meltaguns to take out hordes or armor, so they'll be helpless against even a Rhino.

The same problem with the Elite picks - the Celestians seem confused about their role. Multi meltas will probably not see a ton of use in this game, as no Rhino will want to be caught in the open when one of those things is on the battlefield. To make matters worse, the multi meltas won't get to fire until Turn 3 at the earliest, since they start in reserve and can't fire after disembarking.

The Vindicare Assassin, while a cool model, just won't have a lot to do. He might be able to pick off some Veteran Superiors or something, but that just isn't going to do enough to the enemy, especially when they're so heavily mechanized.

The Inquisitorial Retinue needs to be respected, as they're hard hitting enough in close combat that they could cause serious problems for any stricken Battle Sisters, but Beta has enough meltas to fix that Land Raider with ease.

All in all, I think it's the lack of anti-tank firepower that dictates this one - without any good way of popping the Rhinos, Alpha is going to be at Beta's mercy for the majority of the game. Though both lists will struggle some because of the Reserves Special Rule, I think that Beta is versitile and well equipped enough to deal with this challenge, where Alpha is found wanting.

Witch Hunters BETA for the win.

[LordLink]

wow I have no idea who to vote for on this one.

3 multi-meltas is some pretty formidable anti-tank and will get to shoot before the meltaguns.
I don't think I'll be voting on this one at all... to close.

Land Raiders lascannons should help out a fair bit though.

[Roland Durendal]

Obviously the glorious sisters are on a mission to burn the filthy heretical inquisitor

As for who'd win....tough call on this. 2 WH lists...hmm

Well being patrol, both groups will have a rhino rushing towards the other one right off the bat. And the Inquisitors sisters don't have ANY AT ability, so here's what I see happening: Both lists close in on each other and deploy. Alpha list does few casualties on the Betas. Betas return fire and melta some sisters to death.

Alpha shooting:
18 shots, 12 hit, 8 wound, 3 sisters fail the save. So Beta is down to 6 sisters

Beta:
14 shots, 9 hit, 6 wound, 2 sisters fail
2 shots, 1 hits, it wounds and kills a sister. so Alpha is down to 6.

Basically in such a firefight whichever sisters delpoy out of their vehicle first has the advantage. But, the Beta sisters have another option. Which is to deploy earlier and wait for the Alpha girls to roll on up. And when they get close, unload melta on their transpo and entangle them. So I agree with Firedrake that a lack of AT power is Alpha's doom. Celestians with MM in transpos might seem good, but upon leaving the vehicle they are at a disadvantage for a turn and are vulnerable to shooting.

Sisters of Battle Beta for the win


I can be swayed though if a good argument arises

[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

I think alpha list has this.

There land raider has a couple of fancy twin linked las cannons, which is very good anti tank against rhinos, the exorcist. And the 3 multi meltas aren't bad against rhinos either. They would basically have to keep there land raider 20 inches from the rhinos each turn, however rhinos really wont hold up that long under that kind of firepower.

Once the melta weapon squads are pinned, spread out, or destoryed, they land raider can allow the fairly decent squad inside to assault out, helping to quickly cut through of the enemies power armor.

The Vindicare will shoot at the melta of pinned squads, or will fire at heavy bolters if there arent any other good targets.

Peace

[Lost Nemesis]

Would like to point out to everyone that the mission is Patrol, therefore only a single Troops choice from each side will deploy at the start of the battle...

So, really, assuming that everything besides a Troops choice will do massive amounts of damage is kind of silly, as things won't be coming in until later in the game to begin with.

Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar

There land raider has a couple of fancy twin linked las cannons, which is very good anti tank against rhinos, the exorcist. And the 3 multi meltas aren't bad against rhinos either. They would basically have to keep there land raider 20 inches from the rhinos each turn, however rhinos really wont hold up that long under that kind of firepower.

The Land Raider won't be in until later in the game, and it will come in via Reserves. There are 5 Rhinos in the list, and the Alpha list doesn't have enough reliable anti-tank on the board at any given moment to counter that threat, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar

Once the melta weapon squads are pinned, spread out, or destoryed, they land raider can allow the fairly decent squad inside to assault out, helping to quickly cut through of the enemies power armor.

You are really overestimating this squad, Forged. You're assuming that the Alpha list can down all of the Rhinos - though both sides won't even have everything on the table at the start of the game - and that the Land Raider will be able to stay 20" from each Rhino, each turn, then suddenly the (somewhat of a points sink) Inquisitor's unit pops out, capable of assaulting.

I don't buy it.

Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar

The Vindicare will shoot at the melta of pinned squads, or will fire at heavy bolters if there arent any other good targets.

Assuming the Vindicare is on the table, and assuming the Vindicare can shoot at any non-mounted Troops. You've got this laid out seemingly perfect in your head, but it's not going to be at all how you envision it - you are assuming that each and every Rhino squad will get popped and lay open for the Alpha list to do with as they wish, and in turn the Beta list will cause no damage. You really are underestimating the second list, and way overestimating parts of the first.

The Retributors, when on the table, can lay down a hail of medium-long ranged fire. Heavy Bolters will easily be capable of taking out a Vindicare Assassin, if they can see him. If not, Rhino squads will be more than capable of riding up to within 12" of him and melting him on the spot.

Please keep in mind the mission. If this were a simple this list vs. this list, then it would be a lot closer, but in truth the Alpha squads are equipped rather poorly, especially for going up against a power armoured foe.

The Land Raider will cause little damage, once it gets on the table, because it will either sit still, making it an easy target, or will move around (apparently, always 20" away from each and every Rhino.. um..?) and therefore nearly waste its Lascannons. All it'll take is one or two Melta Guns within 6" of it and it goes boom. The squad inside of it is also a massive points sink, in my opinion, and can only cause any damage in CC.

Keep in mind, also, that the Serpaphim are fairly good at anti-tank. So the Melta Guns from the Rhinos can't take out the Land Raider, because suddenly the weak anti-tank firepower of the Alpha list can kill five of them.. okay, that's fine, but once the Seraphim come down, they have an Eviscerator and two Inferno pistols, which I believe have the Melta rule.

Overall, the first two or so turns will be a 1 vs. 1 between two Rhino mounted Sisters of Battle squads, and I think Beta's squads are better equipped to counter the threat. If the Alpha squad moves, they can't fire their Multi-Melta. If they don't, they are sitting ducks, and the Beta list's squad will be able to move around them and avoid the Multi-Melta.

If the Alpha squad stays in their Rhino, the Beta squad can simply drive up and pop it from their own Rhino's fire point.

I would also like to point out Faith - the Beta list has four more points of it, meaning four more chances to get AP1 Heavy Bolters, 2+ invulnerable saves for the Cannoness, and other things. Don't ignore Faith, as it can be pivotal in a Witch Hunters army list.

Don't underestimate units and lists, and don't overestimate them.

Witch Hunters Beta for the win, in my eyes.

[Katie Drake]

Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar

There land raider has a couple of fancy twin linked las cannons, which is very good anti tank against rhinos, the exorcist. And the 3 multi meltas aren't bad against rhinos either. They would basically have to keep there land raider 20 inches from the rhinos each turn, however rhinos really wont hold up that long under that kind of firepower.

Was it not you who fought tooth and nail some time back saying that multi meltas sucked? If not, my apologies, but I thought I'd point this out.

Once the melta weapon squads are pinned, spread out, or destoryed, they land raider can allow the fairly decent squad inside to assault out, helping to quickly cut through of the enemies power armor.

Once they're pinned... by what? At best, there will be 2 twin linked lascannon shots at a single Rhino (foolish, as the Beta player would have to leave the Rhino in the open and forget to use the Smoke Launchers.), and some rather inefficient multi melta shots, maybe.

As for the Inquisitor cutting through power armor... unlikely. Spirit of the Martyr will hault this unit it its tracks. Using only 2 Faith, the Battle Sisters could make their armor saves Invulnerable and give themselves +2 Strength - more than enough to absorb the charge by the Inquisitor and his boys and then lay down some pain in the same combat turn.

Let's do some math, since you seem to be so found of it. Forgive my subpar mathematical skills, as I'm not exactly sure of which formula to achieve the results that I'm after, but I can give you a general idea.

On the charge, the Inquisitor will get 5 attacks, I believe. He'll be hitting on a 3+ (so that's 3 hits, about) and causing Wounds on a 4+ (1.5 Wounds) of which a 3+ Invulnerable save should turn aside. In fact, the Inquisitor would have to have double the number of Attacks to take out a single Battle Sister.

Let's go with the Crusaders next. Just like the Inquisitor, they'll hit on a 3+ with their 9 power weapon attacks (6 hits). They have a very average Strength, so they'll Wound on a 4+ (3 Wounds), which is enough to take out a singe Sister of Battle.

The Acolytes and Chirurgeons are a non-issue really, since between them they only get 10 Attacks. That's 5 hits, and 2.5 Wounds - likely enough to knock out another Battle Sister.

Congrats. The Inquisitor and company has killed a grand total of 2 Sisters of Battle (just over 20 points) for what seems to be a 350 point unit - less than impressive, I'm sure you'll agree.

Why don't we talk about the return attacks now, hmm?

Since Hand of the Emperor makes them strike at I1, they'll be taking 2 casualties before being able to strike back. With those 8 models, they get 9 attacks. That comes to 4.5 hits, and then since they'll have Strength 5, that's about 4 Wounds. The henchmen take their saves and, lo and behold, that's 2 dead.

... looks like the Inquisitor is now stuck in a combat that he really doesn't want to be in. His ideas of gloriously smashing through the enemy unit has been shattered, and now he's got some seriously pissed off warrior women with supernatural abilities to tangle with over several turns.

The Vindicare will shoot at the melta of pinned squads, or will fire at heavy bolters if there arent any other good targets.

He'll be able to shoot on Turn 3 at the very earliest, and probably Turn 4 since this is patrol, and the enemy is often far away, making his fancy Sniper Rifle useless until he can get in range.