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I'm an old time WHFB player, havent played the past 2 or 3 editions. Been wanting to make a new army, I've had this idea for over a year and I want opinions on it regarding fluffiness and battlefield usefulness. Fluff being the more important thing.
I dont have it all ironed out yet as I dont have an army book handy, but it would go something like this. It'd be an army of Sigmar devotees, complete with Flagellants of course. The idea is to have a magic free army. How do I do that and be competitive? My idea was to bring at least 2 warrior priests in a 1,500-2000pt game and put them in my units most susceptable to enemy magic, and whom I eventually want to use in melee.
the army would be led by a semi-decked out Grandmaster for fluff purposes, with a retinue of at least 9 other knights, in a larger game I might go 12 to 15. This would be the inner circle unit. I'm thinking knights of the blazing sun, or reiksguard knights. the knights panther dont appeal to me, and the knights of the white wolf, while being the fluffiest, have double handed weapons and thats always been a no-no for heavy cavalry, perhaps if the grandmaster was in there, he could do enough damage to save most of those who can hit back on the charge. if certain rules im mentioning no longer exist let me know, lol.
then id have a second unit of regular knights, maybe with a character, depends on points and composition. nothing more than a hero or mounted warrior priest, if thats possible. These would be 8-10 strong. To wrap up the cavalry, I'd take at least one unit of pistoliers for good fast cavalry, just 5-7 of em, and if i can get away with it, 2 units of 5-6 of em. I feel this gives me a strong mobile hard hitting maneuverable aspect to support the infantry, which is obviously not as strong.
Onto infantry. Flagellants are a must. With the new rules, I like the swordsmen because they get a parry with their shield in addition to armor save, plus their WS4. Good solid state troop, but I plan to use free company figures to represent them because this would be fluffier looking, like volunteer Sigmarites, not some pretty state troops from some city that would make a whole lot of sense. For missile infantry, I'd like handgunners, but I have mixed feelings about the fluffiness, perhaps crossbows would look more the part, as you need a dependable weapon that doesnt need lots of supplies to work if you're travelling far distances to crusade for the glory of Sigmar. Id probably use them as detachments for the swordsmen, which id only bring 1 big unit of (24+), and maybe a second smaller unit of up to 20. Spears and Halberds dont really interest me, maybe the Halberds or Greatswords, we'll see. The Battle standard bearer should be in the big swordsmen unit. These and the flagellants, which are going to be enormous, at least 25, maybe 30.
I need some warmachines, I was thinking a Hellblaster is obviously appropriate. Maybe I'll also bring a single cannon or mortar, but thats it, its gotta be mobile enough to travel to far lands.
So the Grandmaster would lead the inner circle knights as the big charismatic crusading hero, The Battle standard would be with the swordsmen for morale, theyd have a shooting detachment and a melee detachment, and theyd form my infantry forces with the flagellants and possibly greatswords. then id bring 2 warrior priests, one for the flagellants and one for the greatswords if i bring em, if not, perhaps the swordsmen or a knight unit.
Definently want to convey a Sigmarite Zealot witch hunt type of army. Have any suggestions?
Great weapons always strike last (unless you have Always Strike First, which negates the ASL, so you strike at I - but not vs Speed of Asuryan which trumps everything so HE with Great weapons always strike first) but with a mediocre I of humans anyway this only matters vs creatures which are faster than you AND can punch through that armour - High Elf White Lions as an example, Ogres and Minotaurs etc. Double handed weapons on horseback/mounted also confer +2 strength like previously so are pretty good.
As for hitting back - doesn't matter how much damage happens - if the enemy unit consists of more models than you have attacks (or more wounds in the case of Monstrous Infantry/cavalry) the you WILL get hit back. There is autmatic stepping up - even if you have higher I, you charge and attack, then enemy steps up and attack. So if you kill 15 men in a 40 man unit, you are guaranteed to be getting 15-20 attacsk back depending on models in b2b contact.
Other major changes are that you attack with full attacks in front rank when fighting forwards, with 1 supporting attack for each model in the second rank and additional supporting attacks for the 3rd rank if your formation is 10 wide.
The new vogue for most cavalry is to form flanking units - normally 10+ men for rank negation or 6 men to just harrass and kill (enemy cannot bring supporting attacks to bear on flanks). A unit of double-handed weapon knights is just as effective at this role as lancers, possibly more so due to always striking at +2 s.
With your army - I'd go 11 strig for teh main knights unit with the hero, 6 strong for the second.
The 2 units of pistoliers is good - fast cavalry are great now, when used correctly, and the number of shots that these guys can output will weaken most enemy units.
havinga BSB is always a good idea, he is rerolling all Ld tests pretty much now, not just break tests. Your swordsmen should go bigger and have a small detachment of supporting troops - e.g. handgunners to scare off enemies (no -1 to hit when enemy charges the parent unit). No need for a melee detachment, the handgunners can perform the same role if they flank charge anyway...
Your second unit of swordsmen should be more than 20 - I can output that many attacks out of 2 ranks of swordmasters (2ranks X 7) and if they hit anything harder than a wet paper sack, you will lose the unit without causing any damage. Greatswords are much better but of course more expensive.
Enormous isn't 25 any more for any units - 40+ is that. Flagellans in couple of units of 30 will be nice ways of pinning opponents in place t getflank charges off from your melee specialists.
Nice idea, I was thinking of something similar a few years ago but it fell by the way side as alot of my ideas do...
anyway as this is the fluff forum will concentrate mostly on that.
Firstly with your knightly orders if you read into the back story a bit more you find out that some of them follow different gods, white wolf knights follow Ulric while the knights of the blazing sun follow myrmidia (goddess of war). There are also different knightly order for most of the other main human gods in the empire.
For a crusading them you could use all non knight or priest characters to be witch hunters with missile weapons and items to suit hunting deamons or undead. With suitable floppy hats of course.
A crusading army unless very wealthy or on a long crusade would not have access to much in the way of warmachines and any they did have would be for attacking castles or forts. As such I think helblasters and the more high tech warmachines would be out while cannons would definitely be okay. Make up a team of horses to pull the cannons if required.
Anyway hope the ideas help.
My friend and I were actually discussing something similar. We were thinking more of a Fanatic army, based mostly around flagellants. Our inspiration was the picture in the 7th edition book of the flagellants dragging the memorial of Midenheim around.
If you have the money to do it, I would say go for it. Drop as much of the high-tech stuff as possible, use maybe one or two cannons, convert and paint the knights to look all fluffy, get lots and lots of flagellants, and so forth. For converting, use a lot of those scraps of scripture that come with your units. Those will be a huge step in turning those swordsmen into crusaders.
A crusading force from teh Empire would probably NOT have a large number of Flagellants along with it - simply they wouldn't be able to support themselves along the way, most would die off by the time they got to teh ships to take them wherever they needed to go. Crusades within teh Empire, Border Princes, Kislev etc would be ok, just about, but anything stretching supply lines to say Araby or the Dark Lands - no way...
Somehow, I don't think the flagellants would mind dying off in huge numbers. The flagellants of the Middle Ages certainly didn't, and although they didn't ever go as far as the middle east they traveled all across Europe and into Russia, rarely caring whether or not they had proper food and supplies.
I do concede that perhaps this isn't the kind of Army Rune was looking for. Perhaps he did want more of a focus on the historical crusades, which, unless I'm much mistaken, had nothing to do with "Ten Thousand Flagellants Pulling the Memorial of Midenheim Delivered from the Darkness," which was the inspiration for the zealot army.