High Elf Special Character(s)...Opinions and suggestions for point value please! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    High Elf Special Character(s)...Opinions and suggestions for point value please!

    So, like many others I would suspect, we have 2 identical mages from the IoB boxed set, having traded our skaven for another's HE's. So, why not add a little 'fluff' as to why we have 2 identical mages, right!?

    So, below, twin brothers, elite of the elite amongst wizards throughout the Warhammer world. Alone, nothing more then a level 4 archmage with a little higher leadership and some additional spell selections. Together, they rival, if not surpass, Teclis, Kairos, etc. in their magical prowess. I was thinking along the lines of 750 pts or so for the pair of them, and of course, they'd eat up points in the 'lords' selection of your army. Thoughts, compliments, opinions and criticism are all welcome.


    Estion

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    - Lvl 4 mage, knows all spells from the Lore of Beasts, may roll for 2 spells from High Magic
    - Staff of Dragon Rage: Once per battle, Estion can release the power of the staff, all beasts, monsters, and monstrous mounts in play gain +3 S and +3 A until the start of the next magic phase.
    - Dragon Cloak of Protection: Grants Estion a 6+ armour save and a 5+ ward save
    Celryan
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    - Lvl 4 mage, knows all spells from the Lore Heavens, may roll for 2 spells from High Magic
    - Staff of Dragon Wisdom: Once per battle, Celryan can release the power of the staff, all friendly units within 18” gain +3 LD until the start of the next magic phase, all enemy units within 18” have their LD reduced by 3, to a minimum of 2, until the start of the next magic phase.
    - Dragon Cloak of Protection: Grants Celryan a 6+ armour save and a 5+ ward save
    When Estion and Celryan are either in the same unit together, or within 6” of one another, they may cast the upgraded versions of their spells at the normal casting cost. If both Estion and Celryan use their staffs in the same magic phase, while they are in the same unit, or within 6” of one another, the bonuses are negated and The Great Celestial Dragon is summoned. The Great Celestial Dragon will leave the battle if Estion or Celryan are slain. Estion and Celryan cannot cast spells from the Lore of Beasts or the Lore of Heavens while The Great Celestial Dragon is in play.
    The Great Celestial Dragon
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    - The Great Celestial Dragon has two heads, and two breath weapons. One is a strength 6 breath weapon, the other is a strength 4 breath weapon which causes all units hit to take a LD test, if failed the unit is subject to Stupidity for the remainder of the game.
    - Lvl 4 Wizard, rolls for one spell from The Lore of Beasts, The Lore of Heavens, and High Magic
    - 2+ Scaly Skin Save
    - Terror
    - Large Target
    - Fly


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  3. #2
    LO Zealot goldenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBone View Post
    So, like many others I would suspect, we have 2 identical mages from the IoB boxed set, having traded our skaven for another's HE's. So, why not add a little 'fluff' as to why we have 2 identical mages, right!?

    So, below, twin brothers, elite of the elite amongst wizards throughout the Warhammer world. Alone, nothing more then a level 4 archmage with a little higher leadership and some additional spell selections. Together, they rival, if not surpass, Teclis, Kairos, etc. in their magical prowess. I was thinking along the lines of 750 pts or so for the pair of them, and of course, they'd eat up points in the 'lords' selection of your army. Thoughts, compliments, opinions and criticism are all welcome.


    Estion

    M
    WS
    BS
    S
    T
    W
    I
    A
    LD
    5
    3
    3
    2
    3
    3
    5
    1
    10


    - Lvl 4 mage, knows all spells from the Lore of Beasts, may roll for 2 spells from High Magic
    - Staff of Dragon Rage: Once per battle, Estion can release the power of the staff, all beasts, monsters, and monstrous mounts in play gain +3 S and +3 A until the start of the next magic phase.
    - Dragon Cloak of Protection: Grants Estion a 6+ armour save and a 5+ ward save
    Celryan
    M
    WS
    BS
    S
    T
    W
    I
    A
    LD
    5
    3
    3
    2
    3
    3
    5
    1
    10


    - Lvl 4 mage, knows all spells from the Lore Heavens, may roll for 2 spells from High Magic
    - Staff of Dragon Wisdom: Once per battle, Celryan can release the power of the staff, all friendly units within 18” gain +3 LD until the start of the next magic phase, all enemy units within 18” have their LD reduced by 3, to a minimum of 2, until the start of the next magic phase.
    - Dragon Cloak of Protection: Grants Celryan a 6+ armour save and a 5+ ward save
    When Estion and Celryan are either in the same unit together, or within 6” of one another, they may cast the upgraded versions of their spells at the normal casting cost. If both Estion and Celryan use their staffs in the same magic phase, while they are in the same unit, or within 6” of one another, the bonuses are negated and The Great Celestial Dragon is summoned. The Great Celestial Dragon will leave the battle if Estion or Celryan are slain. Estion and Celryan cannot cast spells from the Lore of Beasts or the Lore of Heavens while The Great Celestial Dragon is in play.
    The Great Celestial Dragon
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    BS
    S
    T
    W
    I
    A
    LD
    6
    8
    0
    8
    8
    8
    1
    8
    9


    - The Great Celestial Dragon has two heads, and two breath weapons. One is a strength 6 breath weapon, the other is a strength 4 breath weapon which causes all units hit to take a LD test, if failed the unit is subject to Stupidity for the remainder of the game.
    - Lvl 4 Wizard, rolls for one spell from The Lore of Beasts, The Lore of Heavens, and High Magic
    - 2+ Scaly Skin Save
    - Terror
    - Large Target
    - Fly
    you may as well have put kroak and teclis together! both are lvl 4 and know spells. good to see that they cannot buy items with the 100pts allowance.

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    "you may as well have put kroak and teclis together! both are lvl 4 and know spells. good to see that they cannot buy items with the 100pts allowance. "
    Well, they're intentionally very powerful, I did not intend for them to individually be more powerful then Teclis, but together, most certainly.

    Where would you suggest I make changes to start toning them down a bit? Have them roll for spells out of Beasts and Heavens as opposed to knowing all spells? Remove the Cloaks/saves?

    A couple things I don't want to change are the Staves/ability to summon the dragon, nor do I want to change their level. More input please!

  5. #4
    Senior Member Castiell's Avatar
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    I'm all for powerful special characters - but they need to be priced appropriately - both effectively knowing 9 spells, and the effects of the staves are immensly powerful, so I'd say make them 630 pts each - that way, they can't show up individually in games under 2,5k, and the dragon can't show up in games under 5k (since you only have a 625 / 1250 pts lord allowance).

    Also, at this level of power, a lot more background, on why they are the most potent wizards in the world, and have still slipped completely under everyones radar.
    The Silver Knights of Tor Adrac (He): 26/2/4
    The Spears of Slaanesh (Woc): 7/2/5
    Battlegroup Chalybso (GK): 7/3/3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castiell View Post
    I'm all for powerful special characters - but they need to be priced appropriately - both effectively knowing 9 spells, and the effects of the staves are immensly powerful, so I'd say make them 630 pts each - that way, they can't show up individually in games under 2,5k, and the dragon can't show up in games under 5k (since you only have a 625 / 1250 pts lord allowance).

    Also, at this level of power, a lot more background, on why they are the most potent wizards in the world, and have still slipped completely under everyones radar.
    Do you really think they should cost so much individually?


    Comparing one of them to Teclis....

    Teclis knows all spells from any lore of his choice, they know all spells from a mandated lore, but they also get to roll for 2 spells from High Magic.

    Teclis casts w/ IF on any double, they do not.

    Teclis adds 1-3 PD and DD each phase, which is VERY powerful when dispelling, they do not.

    Teclis has a dispel scroll that has a chance to destroy the spell being dispelled, they do not.

    They have 3 T compared to Teclis' 2 T.

    They have a 6+ AS and 5+ ward save, Teclis wounds on a 2.

    They have a one time use item that can either cause a powerful effect, OR summon an awesome dragon (which disables the majority of the spells they know) IF they're together.


    All that said, I feel like they ought to be cheaper, though only slightly, then Teclis. Together, they should certainly cost more.

    440 each sound fair? That still makes them playable solo in smaller games, but requires games >3500 pts before they can be fielded together. I'm also considering dropping their access to the 2 spells from High Magic.

    Thoughts?

  7. #6
    Senior Member Castiell's Avatar
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    Aside from that selfmade characters should always be at least 10% on top of what they're actually worth - Casting upgraded spells for cheap can be extremely powerful, as is knowing nine spells.

    But the important thing is - even without the dragon, that'd probably be worth like 600 points on its own if bought seperately, the staffs are complete and utter game changers, if you built your army around them. So basically, they should be kept out of games that are so small, that the game could be decided in those two boosted turns.
    The Silver Knights of Tor Adrac (He): 26/2/4
    The Spears of Slaanesh (Woc): 7/2/5
    Battlegroup Chalybso (GK): 7/3/3

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    It's all about pricing if you are going to stat them this way. I don't see how they could be fielded in anything less (7th edition) then 3000 points.

    Can this attempt to summon the dragon be dispelled?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBone View Post
    Staff of Dragon Wisdom: Once per battle, Celryan can release the power of the staff, all friendly units within 18” gain +3 LD until the start of the next magic phase, all enemy units within 18” have their LD reduced by 3, to a minimum of 2, until the start of the next magic phase.
    WHAT? Did I read that right?

    A boost of 3 leadership can be pretty handy for your own force but essentially to win games all you would have to do is get this guy close and cause a few PANIC! tests which really should not be a problem at any level game with the magic superiority that this duo brings. Like everyone else has said, these guys are a little underpointed as is but this is just over board.
    Ask me about the Black and White Space Marine on the Black and White Bike!!!

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