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  1. #1
    Member avihai's Avatar
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    I was reading the skaven blurbs on the GW main site and I discovered some interesting wording. I'll quote it here for you:

    "There, the mighty Lords of Decay, ruthless rulers of all Skaven, sit on the Council of Thirteen, scheming and preparing for the time when their armies will emerge from the subterranean realm to raze the entire surface of the world."

    To me the Lords of Decay seems to close to Nurgle. Could Nurgle, God of Decay somehow be behind the creation and organization of The Skaven Race?

    Some Clarification would be nice on this one.

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  3. #2
    Pathfinder Edicius's Avatar
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    I believe the Skaven have thier own pantheon of gods,who in the grande schemes of Chaos as a whole,are more like demi-gods who serve the greater four. I think probably the Horned Rat sways between the influences of both Khorne and Nurgle.Skaven society as a whole is driven primarily by survival,with a secondary desire to conquer and enslave the world. This desire to conqure and destroy the world above them is a somewhat Khornate desire. They also represent a slow,unyielding force that is slowly consuming and eroding the world from underneath. This and Clan Pestilin's love spreading plagues, makes them a very Nurgle-ish species.There is probably a small amount of Tzeentch influence in them as well,given as they are to treachery and complex plots,and clan Moulder's use of controlled mutation.. I think the Horned Rat is most likely the Skaven perception of Chaos undivided.

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    (N) BULL!!!!!!!!!! Read the official GW book by Mitchel Scanlon: THE LOATHSOME RATMEN AND ALL THEIR VILE KIN. Nothing in the book states that skaven were created by Khorne, Nurgle or any of the ******* Chaos gods!!!!!!!!!!!!! It states that the Skaven are a creation of their god, the Horned Rat is also one of the most powerful gods of all of them!!!!!!!!!!(more powerful than the chaos gods to be precese)
    THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;
    (N)

  5. #4
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    (Sorry this isn't in the same post but i just tought of it)You said the skaven are tainted by (a bit of tzeetch a bit of nurgle...etc)chaos, but whats to say the skaven didn't create chaos????????????????? think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!

  6. #5
    Pathfinder Edicius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Boss Wuurzatt@Feb 28 2005, 22:53
    (N) BULL!!!!!!!!!! Read the official GW book by Mitchel Scanlon: THE LOATHSOME RATMEN AND ALL THEIR VILE KIN. Nothing in the book states that skaven were created by Khorne, Nurgle or any of the ******* Chaos gods!!!!!!!!!!!!! It states that the Skaven are a creation of their god, the Horned Rat is also one of the most powerful gods of all of them!!!!!!!!!!(more powerful than the chaos gods to be precese)
    THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;Â*
    (N)
    [snapback]341070[/snapback]

    I know how the Skaven where created thank you, and I never once stated that the Skaven or Horned Rat are a creation of the other gods. I said that he was an aspect of both Khorne and Nurgle, in the same sence that Kaela Mensha Khaine was created completely indepently of the Chaos Gods, but is an aspect of both Khorne and Slaanesh. Now I know Warhammer and 40k are in no way related, but the principle remains the same.And there's no way you can convince me the Horned Rat is more powerful then the other chaos gods. As an avatar of Chaos Undivided,his power most likely waxes and wanes in the same manner of the other chaos gods. He may be mometarily stronger then the others ,but it's in the vary nature of the chaos gods' relationships with eachother for this to be only a temporary advantage.If the Horned Rat was to permanently gain more power then the others,it would disrupt the delicate balance of chaos as a whole,and the Skaven would be running all over the surface by now.And the forces of Chaos existed long before the Skaven even came into existence. Skaven is probably one of the youngets races in the Warhammer world, even younger then Man, seeing as thier species was born in a city inhabited by Humans and Dwarves.

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    (N) Even so whats to say that chaos have aspects of the skaven. Oh and if the chos gods are so " powerful " why hasn't chaos taken over kislev, the empire, brettonia...etc (i was more talking to avihai with those posts). The Horned rat is in no way a deni-god of Chaos.

    And the forces of Chaos existed long before the Skaven even came into existence. Skaven is probably one of the youngets races in the Warhammer world, even younger then Man, seeing as thier species was born in a city inhabited by Humans and Dwarves.

    (N) Erm... it clearly states that before chaos darves and humans lived together and then skaven were born.

    Please edit your posts if you have something to add, not double post. KU

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    Pathfinder Edicius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Boss Wuurzatt@Feb 28 2005, 23:14
    Oh and if the chos gods are so " powerful " why hasn't chaos taken over kislev, the empire, brettonia...etc (i was more talking to avihai with those posts). The Horned rat is in no way a deni-god of Chaos.
    [snapback]341091[/snapback]
    I don't understand that first sentence So I left it out.The Big Four of chaos don't take over the world for the same reasons the Horned Rat has been unable to lead the Skaven to the complete and total domination of the upper world. The forces of chaos work against eachother as much as they work against everyone else. Plus you have equaly powerful forces (I dunno whaat Warhammer orks call Gork and Mork, but yeah...them...) keeping them in check. It's all about balance. All the governing forces of the world keep eachother in check and maintain the balance. The Horned Rat is not the only Skaven god,merely thier chief god. thier is a whole pantheon of lesser gods and dieties that the skaven worship as well,but we don;t hear about them much. Just like how there are lesser gods under the Big four. I agree with the Horned Rat not being a demi-god though. that's not what I meant so I obviopusly phrased my first post wrong. I'd say at best he's on equal ground with the Big Four.

    Erm... it clearly states that before chaos darves and humans lived together and then skaven were born.
    Not possible. Skaven owe thier existence in part to Warpstones, which did not come to the world untill after chaos did.

  9. #8
    Son of LO Araith's Avatar
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    In the fluff repository (on top) we had a discussion like this.

    You agree the coming of Chaos and warpstones mutated rats into skaven, don't you?

    I think that, like the connection of Khorne and Khaine, the Horned Rat and all other vile deities they may have are somehow aspects of Chaos. Not only from Nurgle, who's aspects are very clear, but from all of them.

    The essence of Chaos, the essence of the Chaos gods created, spawned something in their like. They aren't chaos for nothing. Anything is possible, there are no rules or limitations in Chaos.


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  10. #9
    LO Zealot Bawdymonkey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Boss Wuurzatt@Feb 28 2005, 22:53
    (N) BULL!!!!!!!!!! Read the official GW book by Mitchel Scanlon: THE LOATHSOME RATMEN AND ALL THEIR VILE KIN. Nothing in the book states that skaven were created by Khorne, Nurgle or any of the ******* Chaos gods!!!!!!!!!!!!! It states that the Skaven are a creation of their god, the Horned Rat is also one of the most powerful gods of all of them!!!!!!!!!!(more powerful than the chaos gods to be precese)
    THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;Â*
    (N)
    [snapback]341070[/snapback]
    First off, you can make your point with one exclamation. It's ok, try it it out and see how it works for you. Actually, the Horned Rat is most definitely composed of aspects of the Chaos Gods. Well, almost all Gods are to an extent, but as the the less sanctimonious High Elves will tell you, its better not to dwell on that. But because it is the topic of conversation I suppose I will. I talked about this in the fluff repository section but I will repeat it here.

    Edicus, I would argue that the Horned Rat shares the aspects of Tzeentch and Nurgle, rather than Nurgle and Khorne. Their scheming is much more pronounced than their blood thirstiness. Certainly the stranger who built the Bell-Tower was an agent of prophet of Chaos. Chaos Deities are fickle schizophrenic beings with many facets to their personalities, often over lapping as we see in the God of Murder Khaine and in the Horn Rat. It is an unlikely coincidence that Khaine shares Khorne and Slaanesh "virtues" while the Horned Rat does for Nurgle and Tzeentch. Khaine represents the extreme bloodlust that overcomes the passionate elves while the Horned Rat represents schemeing ambitions and uh, um... colds. The Vermin Lords, possibly the original Lords of Decay, blend the traits of a Changer of Ways and the great Unclean One. One must also remember that the Dreaded Liber Bubonicus of Clan Pestilence contains many dread spells of Nurgle.

    What is the Rat? It is a sharp minded plague carrier. It doesn't get simpler than that.
    Not possible. Skaven owe thier existence in part to Warpstones, which did not come to the world untill after chaos did
    While I am not perfectly clear on what Boss Wuzat is saying I think he is referring to the in habitants of the city before Skavenblight. It was a city built by men and Dwarfs but was destroyed after the Chaos Bell was put atop its massive tower and giant rats overran everything but you are right in that Chaos had already come to the world.
    “Cry ‘Havoc’ and let slip the dogs of war!� - Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I

  11. #10
    Pathfinder Edicius's Avatar
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    aye you're right. They are mor sneaky then bloodthirsty. Te only chaos god I had real trouble tieing them to was Slaanesh. I really don't see any dominant features in the Skaven character that links them to Ole Slaany. I assume they're pretty self indulgent though, so I guess that would do it.

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