Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Since there's been a lot of talk about daemonprinces over on the WoC forum, I thought I'd do a small(ended up long) write up from my first game with one. My list can be found here:
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...very-fast.html (Daemon Prince - 2250 - Very Fast)
I used the list in the original post.
All cavalry warriors vs, bretonnians. Should be fun.
I don't know his exact army, but it consisted of something along the lines of:
Lord with reroll to hit/wound and I'd have to reroll armor saves
2 damsels with 2 scrolls each
knights of the realm x 4
6 grail knight
4 pegasus knights
I think that's about it.
Terrain wasn't anything major. Just a house on one side of my deployment and some impassable terrain on the other side in the middle.
He deployed like this from my left to right:
pegasus - knights 1 with paladin - knights 2 with BSB - grail knights with lord and both damsels - knights 3 - knights 4
I deployed from my left to right
khorne horsemen 1 - khorne horsemen 2- slaanesh horsemen with mage - dragon ogres with dogs 1 infront - knights 1 with dogs 2 in front - knights 2 with dogs 3 in front - chariot - BSB on disc - daemonprince.
The majority of his army was more to the left lined up against only my horsemen. That left 2 knight units to the right lined up against everything else I had.
My plan was to bait and flee with the dogs on one flank and to hope 2 khorne horse with flails can deal with pegasus knights on the other.
He prayed to his goddess to save him, but I still let him go first.
His turn consisted of everyone moving up a few inches.
I flew my DP to the far right an inch from his knights 4 flank. Moved all my dogs forward to about the mid point of the table. The khorne horses moved up about an inch everything else moved up to what I figured was about an 1" or 2 further away than his charge range. My BSB couldn't fit by my DP and stay out of his charge sight, so I flew him to the middle of my line incase I was wrong and he could charge me.
Buboes was dispelled with 3 of his dice and gateway saw the first of 4 scrolls. However, I got flickering fire off on his knights 3, killing 3. He rolled a 10 for panic and ran a nice 16"s, but at such an angle he stayed on the board.
His fleeing knights 3 rally.
With his knight 4 unit all by itself right next to my DP and dogs, he decided to charge the dogs 3. His grail knights charge my dogs 1 and his pegasus charge my khorne horse 2.
Both my dogs flee and my khorne horse have to hold, but I didn't think he had the range anyways. He didn't, he came an inch short. The far dogs 3 roll bad and get caught meaning his knights stop 2"s from my knights 2 with my chariot in his flank. Perfectly executed.
Then disaster strikes. My dogs 1 unit fled through my dragon ogres who rolled a 9 for panic and rerolled it into another 9. They then rolled a 16 to flee off the board. There goes my center and 230 points. I really wanted to try these guys out too. If they would have stayed they'd have gotten a charge off on his grail knights.
My turn. My knights 2 and chariot charge his knights 4. He chose to flee, needing a 13 to get out of my range and didn't get it, so both my chariot and knights run him down. We talked about his decision some and figured he was boned either way, but this way I don't get a banner. Maybe he should have stayed.
My khorne horse 2 have to charge the pegasus, which is fine. My DP and BSB fly to the flank of his grail, my dogs 2 move in front of his rallied knights 3 to redirect his charge. My khorne horse 1 move along the table edge to set up a flank charge if he moves up.
Magic saw him 4 dice dispelling my buboes and my gateway saw scroll #2. I rolled 2 dice for flickering fire against his grail knights and got a 6. He throws his 1 magic resistance and rolled a 6...
I was hoping my frenzied flail wielding horsemen could chew up some pegasus knights. They did do a lot of wounds, but after a 5+ armor and 5+ ward I ended just doing 2 wounds. He did 2 back, combat's a push. Not what I was expecting.
Knights 3 charge my dogs 2 and he repositions his other units for set up future charges since nothing else was in his range or sight. My dogs end up needed a rerollable 2 to hold, which I really didn't want them to. The first die stopped as a 1 and the other was spinning. Almost gave me a heartattack, but it stopped on a 4. He's in a problem now though. If he overruns my knights 1 and DP can flank him. If he holds, my knights 2 can flank with my knights 1 hitting his front. He chose to overrun and ended up stopping right in front on his grail knights.
Combat saw me doing 1 wound to his pegasus and him killing 2 more. He wins combat but I hold with 1 model left.
My DP and knights 1 charge the flank of his knights 3. My khorne horse 1 have to charge the front of his knights 1. I reposition my knights 2 and chariot to get flank charged on the grail knights.
Again gateway saw a scroll, his 3rd. Buboes got dispelled again, but this time I'm in combat so no flickering fire. I throw my last 2 dice on the nurgle #3 spell, the stone thrower spell. I'm like 8"s away from his knights 2, but have to guess 12". I scatter 2"s back into his unit and end up killing 1 guy. Was huge, knocked off a rank.
His pegasus finally kill my last khorne horse 2. Really was hoping for more than 3 wounds on his pegasus, but that 5+ ward against my flail hits was just nasty. Infact except my horses he had a 5+ ward against everything I could hit him with all game.
My khorne horse 1 do no damage to his knights 1. 4+ armor and 5+ ward is too nasty and I bounce off him and he catches me.
My DP and knights 1 obliterate his knights 3 and my knights persue into his grail knights. I figure at this point his lord is not something I want my DP to be stuck in a challenge with so I test to hold and hold with him. Not liking my chances with that fight, but if I didn't charge him, he'd have charged me. If I can hold 1 turn of combat against his grail knights and lord I'll get a flank charge in with my other knight unit and chariot.
His pegasus charge my slaanesh horseman and sorcerer and I flee(to rally next turn). He repositions his knight units again to help out his grail knights next turn.
Combat saw noone doing any damage to anyone, got lucky, I had to reroll 3 armor saves and still saved them all from his lord. While I had no problem wounding his grail knights, the 4+ armor 5+ ward was stopping everything. He won combat by 2 ranks and outnumber. Rerollable 5 to stay and I rolled a 4. Their mission a success, but I got lucky.
My turn; chariot and knights 2 charge into his grail knights flank. My DP and BSB fly behind his grail knights.
I actually only rolled a 14 even with a reroll for gateway, but buboe finally goes off and did the last wound to a pegasus knight bringing them down to 2 models.
My knights, that have never failed me in the last 10 games, failed me. 10 attacks and I rolled SEVEN 1s to hit. Infact, after all my knights and horses and the crew for of the chariot I didn't even wound him once. One of my horses from my chariot finally gets a wound through and he fails his 3+ 6+ saves to kill the corner grail knight. Which was key because now he only has 1 guy and his lord hitting front and 2 guys hitting to the side. His lord killed 1 knight and that was all he did. I pretty much won by a flank and outnumber. Rerollable 7s and he holds. NOT GOOD!
He declares a charge with his pegasus into my knights 1 flank, but fails his fear check(wow game winner there). But his knights 1 pass their test and get into the flank of my knights 2. Luckily for me that unit ended up not wounding any knights.
His lord kills another guy, but this time my knights come through and kill the grail knights to the man, leaving just his lord and damsels in the unit. I believe the rules state that when that happens they stay as 1 unit until the end of his turn then break into 3 seperate guys. We both have flanks and we both had same unit strength, so I won by wounds, but he holds again with both units.
I charge my DP and BSB into the knights 1(the unit in my knights 2's flank)'s flank
. Magic saw his last scrolls flying since he knew his damsels were in trouble.
My DP did no wounds, but my BSB actually killed 3 guys. I got 1 guy who can hit his BSB and does so and does a wound too. His lord kills 2 knights. My chariot kills a damsel, but my last knight from knight 1 whiffs against the other damsel. His damsel's horse then kills my last knight. I needed a 2+ to save and threw a 1. That knight won't be reincarnated as a DP.
Unfortunetely for him my knights 2 unit is still at full strength and out numbers all his other units so they all break on 2s, except his lord who was immune to psychology. Everyone breaks though. His damsel and lord both outrun my chariot, who threw a 3 with 3 dice and my knights 2 unit. My BSB runs down his other unit and gets 2 banners. My knights 2 unit runs into his last knight unit.
His lord rallies, but his damsel doesn't and is off the board. He charges his pegasus knights into my slaanesh horsemen and mage.
My knights 2 lose combat and need a 7 to hold and rolled an 8. My BSB persued too far last round and is out of range. We both roll 13s, so he caught me. Of anything, I didn't see that happening.
In the challenge with my sorcerer and his pegasus champion he couldn't get through my 2+ armor save, but I do 1 wound back. His other pegasus kills 2 guys so we push combat(I outnumber).
I charge my chariot into his lord and bring my BSB by him just incase things go bad. My DP flies next to his last knight unit to try and magic him to death.
Gateway goes off finally, but I roll 4 str 7 hits and he saves all but 1. My flickering fire rolls an 8 and he dispels with 2 dice on an 8. Combat saw my sorcerer kill his pegasus champion and roll a 7 on the eotg table. He killed 2 more with his other guy, so its a push again. My chariot does a boatload of wounds, but can't get through his 1+ rerollable armor and 5+ ward. I win by 1(outnumber) but he holds.
I had left 5 models. My DP at full points, my BSB at full points, my sorcerer at full points, chariot at full points and 1 slaanesh horsemen at half points.
Which actually means he only killed around 1200 points, but he got 1 standard and a quarter.
I killed everything but his lord, 1 knight unit and half his pegasus and got 3 standards. I won by around 475 points. A very fun and bloodly minor victory for the Warriors of Chaos!
Surprising enough I got all the charges off except the pegasus at the end and his one knight unit that charged me when I was in combat. Having my entire army hitting with a str5 or more is very nice, but he rolled those 5+ wardsaves like crazy.
Last edited by Pinkus; February 1st, 2009 at 17:09. Reason: Name change
Great writeup! Its a minor victory you say, but I'll say congrats on the win
Guess the army was working pretty well. Shame about the Dragon Ogres fleeing off table prematurely --- I'd like to hear how they work, especially in your army. Though I thought you dropped the Chariot to fit in the DOs? Guess its lucky that you didn't, otherwise you'd lose more than 300pts due to them fleeing in the earlier turns!
I'm surprised the Knights and Horsemen held out that long. I thought without Warriors backup neither would last more than three rounds of combat. Or it was just me, my bad dice rolling, and bad positioning.
Again, glad to hear it works, sans the much expected DO.
Cool game. I rarely see two full mounted armies go at it.
"Ah, but the truth is like an expensive whore, Jerek. She comes in many dresses and will bend over for any with the money to pamper her." ~ Konrad von Carstein
Really need flank charges. Knights are great, but they won't work against rank and file.
As far as dropping the chariot; I originally was going to add more knights and DOs. However I traded my knight box away so I now don't have any more knights to add, so I have to figure out whatelse I can add besides a DO.
Last edited by Pinkus; January 30th, 2009 at 12:48.
All in all not a bad battle vs bretonnians, they pretty much equal WoC for armor and their ward saves are nasty. It was unfortunate about your DO's, they would have done some serious damage had they passed their panic test. Would have been alot worse for him if he didn't come with 4 dispell scrolls.
How did the DP do overall? wasn't much mentioned about him other than moving and casting. Looking at running my DP list for our league tournament and I'll probably be facing brets at some point.
I got another game in tonight with a slightly different list vs some lizzies(old book). I'll do a write up here soon, but I tried no mark and lore of fire. Didn't work too well.
As far as the DP, he got flickering fire off what 2-3 times and he cast gateway 5 times, 4 got scrolled and the 5th I didn't get a 15. He went into a flank with my BSB and whiffed his attacks. Not much else to say. Him getting that one knight unit to panic on turn 1 was key for that entire flank. This last game he did much better even with just lore of fire. But the key was switching my BSB to having banner of the gods. So freaking useful, can't believe I never tried it out before. Pretty much any unit in my army I want to be stubborn will be stubborn. Wow, I'm in love.
Anyways, no time now, but I'll write up another report. I'll also have to check about capturing standards from chasing down fleeing troops.
Nice report! It is a pity about the DO's, they really pack a punch, and would have swung that game even more in your favour. Just out of interest, how does the DP stack up compared to a mortal general?
I've run a lord of a chaos steed dozens of times and find people ignore him as much as possible. Some games he's not a factor. Obviously his 9 leadership is nice. It was strange actually. I usually want my lord to find the biggest baddest hero and kill it. This time around I found myself finding ways to keep my DP out of combat unless I needed his help in a vital situation. I can't see running a DP as anything but a high level mage. He just isn't good enough in combat. 4+ wardsave only gets you so far.
I'm tempted to run a mage on disc instead to save some points, but tendrils is so good. It stopped 2 miscasts last game and helped dispel a thunderbolt against my knights. When I get time I'll write up my newest list and some highlights to my last game.
Yeah Tendrils is what put me focusing on a DP for my army (even before the DP battle reports came out), after reading over my army builder a few times I was mainly looking at a lord on steed and 2 sorcs which is pretty magic tame, and after looking at how powerful the DP can become which really stacks up your magic ability and defence, he was just a really interesting choice and something that will turn a game in your favour. As you said a lord can be forgotten and most times won't make a huge impact as they can get bogged down and/or just be avoided. With the DP they can't avoid that 20" flying terror casting all sorts of nastyness. With my current list I'm looking at a scroll caddy sorc with buboes and a DP with tendrils + splendor to really focus on his ability to make units run and an exhalted BSB on disc to support the DP. Banner of the gods would of course be great for my mass marauder units but at 2k points I don't think I can afford it without seriously stripping away my army.
What I did look at for my Exhalted was a filth mace so that after he kills his first victim he then causes terror for the rest of the battle, that combined with a +1 ward save item (gives him 5+ with mark) makes him pretty surviveable. With both the DP and exhalted flying around causing terror I'm hoping to cause enough leadership tests to have some of his forces running and charge them down with the flyers (against HE I caused all but 1 unit to run and ran down 3 units in 1 charge!). Of course vs undead/immune units I'll just have to blast them with magic.
Looking forward to your lizardmen write-up, going to be testing my setup again this week.
Another thing to think about may be the third eye of tzeentch, that way if you find your spells arn't so great you just use the spells of any LoS wizard instead (buboes etc). Only thing I would worry about is losing the mark of Tzeentch, that 4+ ward save is a 50-50 damage saver and against gunlines may be what helps you get into contact with them or what leaves a dead daemon prince. Yeah it sticks you to lore of Tzeentch but their spells are pretty powerful. You were just unlucky to have an opponent with 4 scrolls, but you at least burnt them all away to leave him open for other spells.
Let's see, the army list I used can be found here:
I don't specific magic items but here is roughly the lizzy army(old book).
Lord on carnisaur
lvl 2 priest that scouts
bsb on coldone
15 warriors FC (we'll call them saurus 1)
tepok and the spawning that lets him move through trees
20warriors FC spears (we'll call them saurus 2)
ITP and the spawning that lets him move through trees
3 x 10 skinks with javelins, 1 unit was a scout
kroxigor x 3
terridon x 3
coldone riders x 9
I think that's it. He had a lot of tepok in his army and 1 scroll. I think he ended with 6 dispel dice.
Terrain saw 3 trees that really never affected the game since they were near the deployment zones and we met in the middle.
His deployment from my left to right.
terradons - saurus 1 behind trees(scouts went into those trees) - coldones with BSB with skinks in front - carnisaur - kroxigors with skinks in front - saurus 2
I believe that was it.
I deployed from my left to right
khorne horse 1 to the far left - BSb and DP - knights 1 with dogs 1 in front - dragon ogres with naked horsemen in front(sorcerer started in that unit) - knights 2 with dogs 2 in front - Chariot - far right khorne horse 2
I got from fire, 1,3,4,6 and my nurgle mage got 1,3
He got celestial shield and thunderbolt(the no armor save one)
He chose to go first
This turn is awefully like the bretonnian turn 1.
He moves everything slightly forward. He 3 dice throws the thunderbolt needing a 9 and rolls an 8.
I march my dogs really close to him and move everything else to a point where I think they are out of his charge ranges. My far left khorne horse 1 just reforms to get a better angle on his teradons if they move forward any. My far right khorne horse 2 march 16 inches up the flank and reform to face the center of the board. If his saurus 2 come out of those woods to threaten my knight's flanks, they'll be hit with my horsemen. My BSB and DP stay around the rear of my DOs. My sorcerer moves out of the unit and stays back.
Fire blast kills 8 of his 10 skinks infront of his coldones. I then used 3 dice to cast the nurgle stonethrower spell and he dispels it. That left me with only 3 dice to try wall of fire and even with a reroll I couldn't get that 12. Counting dispel rolls this game, I rerolled 5 1s and rolled 4 of them as 1s which actually made me miscast once. Not the greatest magic phase as I only killed 8 skinks, but I should have gotten that wall of fire off.
His krox charge my dog 2, his coldones charge my dogs 1, his teradons charge my naked horse. I didn't think he had the range on the teradons, but it wasn't worth letting him get into my line's flank. Everyone flees. His coldones where actually .5"s away from charging my knights. Lucky measuring on my part. Now the part I fear. Panic checks. I had to roll for both knights, my mage and my DP. I failed the first throw for 3 of them, but made the second. Thank you army wide rule, or this game would have been fast.
He moves his skinks to force my far right khorne horse 2 to charge them. His carnisaur moves to counter charge anything that hits his kroxigors.
His magic saw him again getting an 8 on three dice for thunderbolt. His shooting does nothing.
My far left khorne horse 1 have to charge his teradons, he stands and shoots killing 1. My far right khorne horse 2 have to charge his skinks, he stands and shoots, 10 dice, no 5s or 6s.
My knights 1 have room to avoid the coldones and teradons to hit his saurus 1 to the left and alittle behind his coldones. My DOs charge straight into 9 coldones and a BSB. I wanted to try them out, here's the best chance I got. My knights 2 charge his kroxigors.
My BSB flies next to the DOs to make them stubborn. My DP flies behind his carnisaur. His kroxigors flee leaving my knights about to get nailed by his carnisaur. Everything else holds.
I burning head his lord and hit hit his kroxigors. Don't wound his carnisaur, but put 2 wounds on his kroxs. He scrolls fireyblast.
Combat saw my khorne horse 1 eating up 2.5 terradons and the last one flees into my DOs and dies. I overrun and bump into my BSB, which actually covers him from skink shooting next round. My khorne horse 2 kill 8 skinks, but fail to chase them down and I bump into my knights 2 flank. Not good, because his saurus 2 will rear charge my khorne horse 2 and overrun into the flank of my knights 2.
Unfortunetely, months upon months of playing ogre kingdom has made me just think all my guys have 3 wounds. So I didn't notice till after the game I played them wrong. Anyway, I did 2 wounds to him and he did 2 back. I hold on a stubborn 8(which is actually what I rolled, so my BSB is already paying off).
My knights 1 do some wounds, maybe 4 or 5 and he does none back but holds.
His carnisaur charges the front of my knights 2, his saurus 2 hit the rear of my khorne horse 2. I probably should have fled with my knights, but they've killed carnisaurs in my last tournament, so I let them stay to see what they can do.
He again tries to cast thunderbolt, 3 dice needing a 9 and rolls a 7. His skinl scouts kill 3 of the 4 khorne horse 1, leaving just 1 guy.
My DOs do 1 more wound and take a few more. I got 2 models left now and I hold again because my BSB makes them stubborn.
My knights 1 murder the saurus till only 3 are left. He out runs me, but they can't rally. I persue into the woods.
His saurus 2 only kill 2 khorne horse 2 and I killed 3-5 back taking off his one rank. But he wins and I break. I think I ran into either his carny or his coldones, but the unit is gone and his saurus get into my knights flank.
His carnisaur and saurus 2 kill 3 knights, but I put 1 wound back on his carnisaur. I get rerollable somethings, but I fail them both and run into his coldones. His carnisaur runs head first into his coldones. Meaning no charges for him next turn.
My turn; I charge my BSB into the front of his coldones to try and help my DOs. My last khorne horse 1 has to charge the COs flank. My chariot charges his kroxigors flank. My DP flies behind his kroxigors. 1 dog unit rallies and my naked horse rally 2"s from the table edge. My knights 1 move to get out of the woods.
I tried to get my dogs 2 to flank his saurus but cam .5" short. My mage joins up with the naked horsemen.
My magic phase finally comes alive. I cast buboes against his carnisaur and he lets it go through. It has 3 wounds left. My DP casts fireyblast against him and goes off. I roll 12 hits! 9 hit the carnisaur and kill the bugger. No wounds to his lord. I also get firewall off on his saurus 2 leaving them with still 15 models, but he has a tough choice next turn.
My chariot does 4 wounds killing 2 kroxigors, but they hold...
My BSB challenges his BSB and does 2 wounds killing him. Thank you flail. I rolled +1 strength, which was huge, on the EOtG. My khorne horse 1 does no wounds and gets killed. He kills my DO down to 1 model left. He won, but my BSB and DO both hold on stubborn 8. I'm beginning to love this banner. While I'm losing combats, I'm actually controlling what's going on and his expensive 9 man coldones are stuck against 190 points of DOs.
He charges his lord into the flank of my chariot to help his kroxigors, but comes up short. His saurus 2 charge the flank of my last DO. His 2 remaining skinks from the unit I blasted turn 1 charge my sorcerer.
He figured a few dead saurus from firewall was worth it to get into that combat. I had to kill 6 to knock off 2 ranks. 15 str 4 hits and I did do 6 wounds, but he saved 2. 11 models make it to my DOs.
My sorcerer kills both skinks.
His saurus kill off my DOs. I think I may have had some left if I played them right with 4 wounds each. All game I could feel something was wrong, but I kept thinking they had 4 attacks, not wounds, so I'd check every turn and see they had only 3 attacks. Never crossed my mind to check their wounds. He denies my challenge from my BSB, but my bsb kills a bunch of them, now that he has strength 6. He has 4 coldones left now. My BSB holds and his saurus are out of combat now.
My chariot did 1 wound only to the kroxigor who proceeded to turn around and hit him once to wound him once and pop the chariot...
I charge my DP into the rear of the coldones to help out my BSB. My dogs now charge and get into the saurus's rear to hold them from charging my BSB hopefully. My knights 1 charge his lord on foot.
My buboes wounds his priest and with nothing else to do I throw all my dice at wall of fire to hurt his scout skinks and I think I did 1 wound. Just was nothing left to hurt. I actually think I misfired here while throwing the stone thrower at his skinks. I rolled a 6 which means he got his thunderbolt off, but I scroll it.
I have my horses hit his lord first and 2 wound him. He has a 2+ armor save and rolled two 1s! Thinking this guy's toast, my knights end up not hurting him. He holds.
My general challenges his CO champion and murdered him. My BSB kills the other guys. He can't move, but my general tries to overrun away from the skinks and gets a nice big 4"s. Not good.
My wolfs do a wound and lose 2 in return, but hold off of the general's leadership and BSB being near by. Their job was done, those saurus aren't going anywhere.
His last kroxigor charges my knights to try and help his lord.
His skinks move to shoot at my DP and do 2 poison hits. I miss both ward saves and now my general is at half points. Those skinks made back all their points and then some.
He miscasts(worst magic throwing I've seen in a long time.) There's really nothing I can do, so I stone thrower his skinks and scatter away from them. I'm trying to think why I didn't bubues his priest, maybe he was not in line of sight.
He kills the rest of my dogs.
His kroxigor does no wounds, needing to hit on 5s, and takes 2 wounds back. This time neither the knights nor lord wound, but he breaks and I chase him down.
I charge my naked horsemen and sorcerer into the flank of his remaining saurus. He doesn't wound me and he holds. I moved my BSB and DP behind his saurus and away from his skinks. He dispels everything I throw at his skinks.
His skinks move out of line of sight of my BSB and he taunts my DP into charging them. His saurus still don't wound me and I do enough wounds to barely win and he holds again.
I charge my DP into the rear of his saurus, not his skinks. I slaughter a bunch of them and he breaks and my DP chases him down. I let him roll his stand and shoot if I would have charged his skinks and it turned out good, he would have killed my DP.
He had 1 unit of skink scouts and a half point priest left. I had 1 knight unit, naked horse, DP, BSB, sorcerer left. I believe the tally was a massacre by 1450+ points in favor of the Warriors of Chaos!
Overall, I think the addition of the banner of the gods on my BSB was HUGE. Being stubborn wherever I needed it and I did need it, was nice. Having 12 wounds with my DO and making them stubborn means they are now my official anvil. Being anvils, they'll probably die, so I might just keep them naked.
My DP did a lot better this time. Only 1 scroll to defend against. Still not satisified with him though.
I also need to figure out what to do with my naked horsemen. They're just an eyesore when I look at my list. I don't really want any infantry and I can't find the points for any equipment on them. I guess they'll just have to stay the same.