2nd game of Fantasy: 2Kpts VC vs WoC - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    2nd game of Fantasy: 2Kpts VC vs WoC

    This was my second game. After finishing it I realised how many times I screwed up-> for example I thought my thralls with Avatar of Death and HW/Shield had a 2+ save. I think I passed all his saves on 6's anyways, but still.... and I didn't realise that you count ranks before combat so I was out a couple of ranks. I also forgot to designate my two thralls at the start so I rolled to see which was which when it became important. My lack of zombies also seemed to bite me in the ass so I bought some after.

    VC:

    Heroes:
    Vampire Lord: +1 Magic Level, Dark Acolyte, Master of Dark Power, Lord of the Dead, Nightshroud, Crown of the Damned, the bloodsword thing-> I'll say this now, looking back I realize that I didn't give him the helm of commandment but I thought I had. He never got into combat so his other items were worthless anyways, but that really bugs me. I only noticed this while writing this up.

    Vampire Thrall: Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death (HW/Shield), Dispell Scroll

    Vampire thrall: Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death (HW/Shield), Staff of Sorcery

    Core:

    3x10 Skeletons w/ Full Command (this actually worked out well, or would have been better if not for Villitch)

    2x 5 Dire Wolves (played these wrong...)

    Special:

    20 Grave guard w/ GW, Full Command, Banner of the Barrows

    6 Black Knights w/ Full Command, Barding, Royal Standard of Strigos

    Rare:

    4 Blood Knights w/ Banner, Kastellian w/ Banefire Spike

    Warriors of Chaos:

    Heroes:

    Villitch (annoying lvl 4 special character that gained DD equal to those used on a failed spell and PD equal to those used on a failed dispell attempt)

    Exalted Champion w/ Mark of Khorne, Chaos Runesword, Juggernaut

    Core:

    2x 12 Warriors w/ Shields, full command, Mark of Slannesh

    1x 18 Warriors w/ 2 HW. full command, Mark of Slannesh

    Special:

    1x 5 Knights of Nurgle w/ Full Command, Frenzy Banner, Lances

    1x 5 Knights of Slannesh w/ Full Command (I forget if they had lances)

    He started to set up first. I won first turn.

    Terrain was sparse so it was essentially an open field. He set up 12 warriors then the Slannesh knights then 18 warriors with Villitch, then the nurgle uber knights with the exalted, then 12 warriors.

    I set up up my blood knights, then dire wolves, then skeletons with one thrall, then more dire wolves, then skeletons with a thrall, then black knights. My third unit of skeletons with my lord was behind my dire wolf unit in the middle.

    Turn 1, VC:

    I marched my dire wolves all 18" in front of the knights (one in front of each) to march block, then manuevered my black knights to flank his nurgle knights after they eat my wolves. I then boosted one skeleton unit to 20 and the other to 15 or so. I had rolled Gaze of Nagash for both of my thralls and tried firing them at the nurgle knights. One was dispelled and the other went off with 11 hits. I wounded 7 times and he failed 1 save.

    Turn 1, WoC:

    He charged my wolves(both) with his knights(both). His other units were march blocked and so moved very little. He cast Pandemonium with 4d6 and I scrolled it. He failed his other spell.

    His knights tore apart my wolves. Then for overrun he moved about an inch in front of my Blood knights with his slannesh knights and overran into a skeleton unit with his nurgle knights.

    Turn 2, VC:

    I charged his nurgle knights with my black Knights into one flank and my grave guard into the other. I charged his slannesh knights with my blood knights.

    For casting I cast gaze of Nagash at his rightmost unit of warriors, killing 2. I then tried to Van Hel's my skeleton unit that had been overrun with the thrall and he was dispelled and then my lord tried and miscast (a five and two ones) and rolled an 11, losing a wound, a level, and Van Hel's. She then proceeded to roll 3 ones for her invocation of Neheks.

    We probably screwed up combat. He challenged with his khorne champion and I accepted with my graveguard champion. My graveguard champion took 4 wounds and did nothing in return and died. Then we resolved his knights who killed off lots of skeletons. I used my non-existent helm of commandment on my Black Knights, who then hit twice on a 3+ with 5 attacks, re-rolled due to hatred, and still only hit one more for a total of 3 hits. I then wounded twice and got a killing blow. My opponent proceeded to pass both 4+ saves. My grave guard were in contact with his khorne champion who challenged and couldn't do anything IIRC. Rookie mistake on my part. My skeletons couldn't attack and he passed both saves caused by my vampire. So all in all I lost combat by 6 (I missed out on 2-3 pts of rank due to not knowing to count ranks before combat) and lost a lot of skeletons, grave guard, and all my black knights.

    My Blood Knights killed all his Knights of Slannesh and overran 1" in front of his 12 man chaos warrior unit.

    Turn 2, WoC:
    He charged my blood knights with his warrior unit. In the magic phase I dispelled his Pandemonium and he failed to cast flickering fires.

    The exalted champion of khorne challenged and my skeletal champion accepted. My champion was hit and wounded with every attack and died horribly. His knights then attacked my skeletons and grave guard. They killed 2 grave guard, but then the grave guard managed to kill a knight. The champion tried attacking my vampire and failed to hurt it. My skeletons took 3 wounds and I passed 1 save. I lost combat again and removed some more skeletons and graveguard.

    In the other combat, his champion challenged my Kastellian and I accepted. He failed to hurt my Kastellian and my Kastellion killed his champion twice. His warriors killed a bloodknight and he managed to pass all the saves from blood knights. He won by 1 and I lost another blood knight.

    Turn 3, VC:
    I charged his other formerly 12 man warrior unit with my 20 man unit with skeletons and a thrall.

    In magic I tried to cast Summon Undead Horde but it was dispelled. I then manged to invocate back 2 skeletons with 2 invocations and I manged to invocate back 5 grave guard (the other two invocations failing).

    In combat, the chaos warriors against my blood knights failed to hurt them. My blood knights (now frenzy-less) managed to hit 4 times, and then rolled 3 ones and he passed his save against the one wound I did. I lost by 2 and my blood knights dissolved.

    For the nurgle knights plus the exalted, I used my new skeletal champion to take his exalted's challenge. My champion died. His banner tried to attack my grave guard and killed one and his unit champion failed to hurt my vampire (I think I rolled a 3 for the save here but for some reason i thought it was a 2+ save for HA+HW+Shield). My grave guard killed his banner (and nothing more, despite hitting on a 2+ and wounding on a 2+). I had one death, outnumber, flank, and a banner (2 but only one counts it seems) and he had 4 wounds (3 to my poor skeletal champion, one to a grave guard). My musician won combat for me and his exalted and knight ran into my unit of skeletons that were against the warriors and died.

    With the 20 skeletons and the thrall vs the other 12 (now 10) warriors, my vampire was challenged and he killed the enemy chaos warrior. I won combat and the warriors ran 7". I rolled a 3 to pursue.

    Turn 3, WoC:

    He charged my grave guard in the flank with his 18 man warrior unit after having Villitch leave the unit. His warriors who had run from my skeletons rallied and reformed to face them.

    Villitch tried to cast Gate and I dispelled it. He then cast flickering fire on the 20 man unit and killed 2.

    In combat he challenged my grave guard champ with his champ and I accepted. He killed my champ 3 times and killed one more grave guard. My last one rolled a 1 to wound so I lost combat and lost some more grave guard.

    Turn 4, VC:

    I reformed my formerly 20 man skeleton unit so it could see Villitch and the warriors would charge its front arc.

    For magic I tried to Gaze of Nagash Villitch with one thrall on 3d6 and rolled a 7 giving him 3 more dispell dice. I tried with the other thrall and it was dispelled. I tried Summon Undead Horde again and miscast. At this point I had no real method of winning as my GG were screwed and all I would have left are skeleton units and my boss man just miscast and I was getting frustrated at his good luck and my bad luck so I surrendered and said good game.

    So, any tips or anything for using VC or facing a chaos army like that? I think Villitch really screwed me over with his Vessel of Chaos rule. If it weren't for that I think I would have done a lot better and I didn't really have any way of dealing with him until that last turn when I failed an important Gaze of Nagash and gave him 3 more DD. Any advice on where I went wrong (other than using an item I ended up not having or not knowing the ranks thing)?

    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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  3. #2
    High Priest of LO Nagash's Avatar
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    Hai I will not comment the List or anything like that (Build-ups, deployment, etc...) but I will analyze your turns as detailed as possible Since the terrain seemed not to have granted any "tactical benefits", I will not comment that either

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
    Turn 1, VC:

    I marched my dire wolves all 18" in front of the knights (one in front of each) to march block, then manuevered my black knights to flank his nurgle knights after they eat my wolves. I then boosted one skeleton unit to 20 and the other to 15 or so. I had rolled Gaze of Nagash for both of my thralls and tried firing them at the nurgle knights. One was dispelled and the other went off with 11 hits. I wounded 7 times and he failed 1 save.
    It seems as you handled the first turn pretty well I would not use the wolves in that way though...

    Do not give your opponent baits, unless you can lure him into any kind of trap when he respond by charging.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
    Turn 1, WoC:

    He charged my wolves(both) with his knights(both). His other units were march blocked and so moved very little. He cast Pandemonium with 4d6 and I scrolled it. He failed his other spell.

    His knights tore apart my wolves. Then for overrun he moved about an inch in front of my Blood knights with his slannesh knights and overran into a skeleton unit with his nurgle knights.
    Good that you used a Scroll here Well placed Scrolls can easily shut down a Magic Phase...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
    Turn 2, VC:

    I charged his nurgle knights with my black Knights into one flank and my grave guard into the other. I charged his slannesh knights with my blood knights.

    For casting I cast gaze of Nagash at his rightmost unit of warriors, killing 2. I then tried to Van Hel's my skeleton unit that had been overrun with the thrall and he was dispelled and then my lord tried and miscast (a five and two ones) and rolled an 11, losing a wound, a level, and Van Hel's. She then proceeded to roll 3 ones for her invocation of Neheks.

    We probably screwed up combat. He challenged with his khorne champion and I accepted with my graveguard champion. My graveguard champion took 4 wounds and did nothing in return and died. Then we resolved his knights who killed off lots of skeletons. I used my non-existent helm of commandment on my Black Knights, who then hit twice on a 3+ with 5 attacks, re-rolled due to hatred, and still only hit one more for a total of 3 hits. I then wounded twice and got a killing blow. My opponent proceeded to pass both 4+ saves. My grave guard were in contact with his khorne champion who challenged and couldn't do anything IIRC. Rookie mistake on my part. My skeletons couldn't attack and he passed both saves caused by my vampire. So all in all I lost combat by 6 (I missed out on 2-3 pts of rank due to not knowing to count ranks before combat) and lost a lot of skeletons, grave guard, and all my black knights.

    My Blood Knights killed all his Knights of Slannesh and overran 1" in front of his 12 man chaos warrior unit.
    It seems as alot of unluck right there hehe...

    You did the best charges possible If you were able to charge with anything in addition to those chargers, you would have done that - but I am pretty sure it wasn't possible...

    And as you already realized; the Combat Phase turned out to be pretty weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
    Turn 2, WoC:
    He charged my blood knights with his warrior unit. In the magic phase I dispelled his Pandemonium and he failed to cast flickering fires.

    The exalted champion of khorne challenged and my skeletal champion accepted. My champion was hit and wounded with every attack and died horribly. His knights then attacked my skeletons and grave guard. They killed 2 grave guard, but then the grave guard managed to kill a knight. The champion tried attacking my vampire and failed to hurt it. My skeletons took 3 wounds and I passed 1 save. I lost combat again and removed some more skeletons and graveguard.

    In the other combat, his champion challenged my Kastellian and I accepted. He failed to hurt my Kastellian and my Kastellion killed his champion twice. His warriors killed a bloodknight and he managed to pass all the saves from blood knights. He won by 1 and I lost another blood knight.
    It is really sad to see such awesome models *poooof* from the battle by CR

    He didn't get that much magic through though, lucky you

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
    Turn 3, VC:
    I charged his other formerly 12 man warrior unit with my 20 man unit with skeletons and a thrall.

    In magic I tried to cast Summon Undead Horde but it was dispelled. I then manged to invocate back 2 skeletons with 2 invocations and I manged to invocate back 5 grave guard (the other two invocations failing).

    In combat, the chaos warriors against my blood knights failed to hurt them. My blood knights (now frenzy-less) managed to hit 4 times, and then rolled 3 ones and he passed his save against the one wound I did. I lost by 2 and my blood knights dissolved.

    For the nurgle knights plus the exalted, I used my new skeletal champion to take his exalted's challenge. My champion died. His banner tried to attack my grave guard and killed one and his unit champion failed to hurt my vampire (I think I rolled a 3 for the save here but for some reason i thought it was a 2+ save for HA+HW+Shield). My grave guard killed his banner (and nothing more, despite hitting on a 2+ and wounding on a 2+). I had one death, outnumber, flank, and a banner (2 but only one counts it seems) and he had 4 wounds (3 to my poor skeletal champion, one to a grave guard). My musician won combat for me and his exalted and knight ran into my unit of skeletons that were against the warriors and died.

    With the 20 skeletons and the thrall vs the other 12 (now 10 ) warriors, my vampire was challenged and he killed the enemy chaos warrior. I won combat and the warriors ran 7". I rolled a 3 to pursue.
    I would not have made any big changes if I've played this turn.

    Magic Phase: You should have cast Vanhel's or successfully cast SUH, if it could be fixed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
    Turn 3, WoC:

    He charged my grave guard in the flank with his 18 man warrior unit after having Villitch leave the unit. His warriors who had run from my skeletons rallied and reformed to face them.

    Villitch tried to cast Gate and I dispelled it. He then cast flickering fire on the 20 man unit and killed 2.

    In combat he challenged my grave guard champ with his champ and I accepted. He killed my champ 3 times and killed one more grave guard. My last one rolled a 1 to wound so I lost combat and lost some more grave guard.
    Haha, your Luck is nothing to brag about If Lady Fortune would have loved you a bit more, you should really have won this game hehe

    But you were lucky not to suffer that much from the Fires of Tzeentch

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
    Turn 4, VC:

    I reformed my formerly 20 man skeleton unit so it could see Villitch and the warriors would charge its front arc.

    For magic I tried to Gaze of Nagash Villitch with one thrall on 3d6 and rolled a 7 giving him 3 more dispell dice. I tried with the other thrall and it was dispelled. I tried Summon Undead Horde again and miscast. At this point I had no real method of winning as my GG were screwed and all I would have left are skeleton units and my boss man just miscast and I was getting frustrated at his good luck and my bad luck so I surrendered and said good game.
    Final note:

    Buy new Dice


    //Nagash, the Corrupt

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  4. #3
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagash View Post
    Hai I will not comment the List or anything like that (Build-ups, deployment, etc...) but I will analyze your turns as detailed as possible Since the terrain seemed not to have granted any "tactical benefits", I will not comment that either
    Any and all input is very appreciated. The list wasn't one I would have made given more time anyways.

    It seems as you handled the first turn pretty well I would not use the wolves in that way though...

    Do not give your opponent baits, unless you can lure him into any kind of trap when he respond by charging.
    Well, I had sent them up to march block and the traps were to get his Slannesh Knights to overrun in front of my blood knights (which worked) and to get his other knights to overrun and end up right in front of my skeleton unit so I could triple charge him, but he overran higher than average and hit my skeleton unit. So I had a good trap set up, but his overrun was too high and it screwed me over. I was prepared for a 10" or 11" overrun but he managed 12". Go figure. Lol. I think it was actually a good plan so next time I think I'll just try deploying a bit farther back if I want to try that again. Or not moving so far.

    Good that you used a Scroll here Well placed Scrolls can easily shut down a Magic Phase...
    Yeah. Thats what I had hoped for, plus I didn't want to risk not dispelling it with my bad luck and giving him 1-3 more spells that I could do nothing against.

    It seems as alot of unluck right there hehe...

    You did the best charges possible If you were able to charge with anything in addition to those chargers, you would have done that - but I am pretty sure it wasn't possible...

    And as you already realized; the Combat Phase turned out to be pretty weird
    Looking back, I had screwed up quite a bit in that combat. I used my non-existent helm on my knights when I should have used it on my GG (hitting and wounding on a 2+!), looking now his knights would strike before my knights and my GG so he could have done a hell of a lot of damage to them if he had wanted to with his lances, and I don't want to even get started on combat res... he got like 12 points from kills and overkills so considering my single kill and 3 ranks and outnumber and flank... it looks like we somehow managed to get the correct number of combat res in the end anyways.

    [quote]
    It is really sad to see such awesome models *poooof* from the battle by CR

    He didn't get that much magic through though, lucky you
    [quote]

    Considering I had 6 DD and his had 6 PD, what would usually happen is he would try a big 5 PD spell and I would use all 6 DD in hopes of stopping it. Combine that with my +1 negating his +1 I had an advantage there so then I just had to count on the 33% chance of him failing his flickering fires.

    I would not have made any big changes if I've played this turn.

    Magic Phase: You should have cast Vanhel's or successfully cast SUH, if it could be fixed...
    My VLord lost her Vanhel's due to the miscast, along with a level. The other one could only Vanhel's his own unit as he was in combat so I didn't think giving skeletons ASF and Hatred was worth not bringing some back.

    I probably should have tried casting another SUH instead of just invoking my GG and the skeletons. I probably would have been better off that way.

    Haha, your Luck is nothing to brag about If Lady Fortune would have loved you a bit more, you should really have won this game hehe

    But you were lucky not to suffer that much from the Fires of Tzeentch



    Final note:

    Buy new Dice


    //Nagash, the Corrupt
    Yeah, my dice are horrible. I roll bad in 40K too, but I have enough re-rolls with my nids to help make up for it-> i usually do badly with the initial rolls, but then do well with re-rolls (though not always. I've had 8 stealers with FT charge 5 without FT but with EC and get badly pwnt when I managed no rends to his 4). These days I don't plan on getting certain results-> I just hope that I don't get specific other results (like failing all my 3+ saves, though I've done that before). Today I had a fex pen a Ven Dread 7 times (had 9 attacks with it with re-rolls). I managed to get a wrecked and a explosion result which were re-rolled into stuns. In the end I ended up killing it due to giving it 3 more immobilized results on top of the one my flyrant had given it before it was killed by the ven dread. When my luck is good generally there's something else that tends to equalize it. Ex: today I managed to hit 10 times with 12 attacks hitting on a 4+ against Vanguard Marines. I then proceeded to roll 8 1s and 2s and my opponent made his two saves. In my first game with my VC I only ever made 1 save (it was a 2+) and that character ended up dying to combat res anyways so it didn't matter. Lol.

    I really do need new dice. My GW ones seem to be cursed (though somehow I still have yet to lose with my nids in 5th as far as I can remember-> the rare good rolls seem to generally make up for the common bad ones, like when i get 3 6s for runs with my 3 CC godfexes to offset the many times I get very low run rolls, like their triple 1s today). I've got many, many stories of bad dice rolling (or good dice rolling for my opponent), like dealing 5 wounds to my opponent's command squad and having him not even needing his FNP (I also did a couple the turn before and he passed all his armour saves then too), or dealing 18 wounds to a tactical squad (got 3 direct hits hitting 6 guys each with my deathspitters and a direct hit against 8 guys with my BS in my 5 DS 1 BS warrior unit) and only killed 3 or 4.
    Last edited by Phalanx; August 21st, 2009 at 05:01.
    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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  5. #4
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    That battle had a lot to do with your dice, and more to do with you guys not remember your rules (which is fine, it's a lot to get down in one sitting).
    This is your lucky day, because I play WoC as well

    Villitch: this isn't as big an issue as you think it is. I'm not joking when I say this, but I want you to get in touch with me before you play against Daemons of Chaos, because they have a much nastier trick that needs a whole tactica dedicated to getting around it.
    Villitch isn't too tough to deal with, and luckily for you, he didn't cast much. Magic phases shouldn't scare you, because you can regen your army. Once more, it helps to load up on your magic, for that reason. Sadly, I can't help much, as I tend to just ignore Villitch, until I can get in a good charge and challenge his feathered arse out to die.

    Wolves: You put the wolves in the list to keep your Knights from getting baited. If you're not going to use them for that, then you need to drop them in favor of extra skeletons. I'm not being a jerk, it's just the first rule of building an efficient army:
    each unit has a role, if it doesn't fill that role, it needs to go in favor of a better option.
    You should always use "Raise Dead" zombies as your charge redirectors.

    Remember:
    Ranks are determined from the START of the combat
    Outnumber is a +1 to whoever has the higher US at the END of combat
    Flanks add +1 to your side, and also negate ranks
    In a challenge, you get Overkill instead of tallying the number of wounds between units

    If I were you, I would make and print out a "cheat sheet" with all of your common rules summarized, and page numbers for other rules. I have one that I take with me to tournaments, and it's a huge help. Granted- mine has space to write all of my opponents spells, casting values, bound items, and dice alotments, as well as all of that info for me, and the "mathhammer" tables of odds and ratios, but that's just because I know the basics by heart and don't need to waste space.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  6. #5
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    Villitch can be a bit of a problem for invocation spamming vamps if you roll poorly for your first few attempts... but just be glad there was no black tongue / infernal puppet combo in the game. That could be much worse.


    Also, keeping one cheap unit of dire wolves for charge redirection is not a bad idea, imo. Using raise dead zombies can work, but it's not all that reliable. First, you need to have a vampire within 12" of where you want to have your zombies.. and unless it's your vamp lord, it can be easily dispelled. The last thing you want is to rely on a hero-level vamp having to cast a spell to redirect the enemy's uber unit of death.
    Last edited by moob; August 21st, 2009 at 16:05.

  7. #6
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
    That battle had a lot to do with your dice, and more to do with you guys not remember your rules (which is fine, it's a lot to get down in one sitting).
    This is your lucky day, because I play WoC as well

    Villitch: this isn't as big an issue as you think it is. I'm not joking when I say this, but I want you to get in touch with me before you play against Daemons of Chaos, because they have a much nastier trick that needs a whole tactica dedicated to getting around it.
    Villitch isn't too tough to deal with, and luckily for you, he didn't cast much. Magic phases shouldn't scare you, because you can regen your army. Once more, it helps to load up on your magic, for that reason. Sadly, I can't help much, as I tend to just ignore Villitch, until I can get in a good charge and challenge his feathered arse out to die.
    So you just cast as normal then? And whats the nasty trick DoC have thats even nastier? I'm really curious about that.

    Wolves: You put the wolves in the list to keep your Knights from getting baited. If you're not going to use them for that, then you need to drop them in favor of extra skeletons. I'm not being a jerk, it's just the first rule of building an efficient army:
    each unit has a role, if it doesn't fill that role, it needs to go in favor of a better option.
    You should always use "Raise Dead" zombies as your charge redirectors.
    I didn't have any zombies at the time (I bought a box right after the game though). I agree. Zombies would have likely worked at least as well as my dogs did. I'll try to get my zombies ready for next time that I play.

    One of the main reasons I took wolves was to shield my knights from shooting. As WoC didn't have shooting and had nothing to really bait my wolves it was either do nothing with them or use them as bait (and as I said, that nearly worked!).

    Remember:
    Ranks are determined from the START of the combat
    Outnumber is a +1 to whoever has the higher US at the END of combat
    Flanks add +1 to your side, and also negate ranks
    In a challenge, you get Overkill instead of tallying the number of wounds between units
    So if there's a challenge then all the kills his knights did would be ignored? Thats extremely useful to know... I would have won that first combat that I had lost by 6 by 2 if I had known that. I'd rep you but I seem to have to pass it around a bit more before I can.

    If I were you, I would make and print out a "cheat sheet" with all of your common rules summarized, and page numbers for other rules. I have one that I take with me to tournaments, and it's a huge help. Granted- mine has space to write all of my opponents spells, casting values, bound items, and dice alotments, as well as all of that info for me, and the "mathhammer" tables of odds and ratios, but that's just because I know the basics by heart and don't need to waste space.
    Mathhammer I can do in my head really easily and quickly so I wouldn't need that. It would be useful to have all my spells written down, though, because I tended to accidently grab the dice denoting my spells. I'm definately going to make a cheat sheet, though. It will be very, very useful.

    @moob: I knew that my opponent didn't have the infernal puppet combo (though he did mention that he could take it before the game).
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  8. #7
    High Priest of LO Nagash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moob View Post
    Also, keeping one cheap unit of dire wolves for charge redirection is not a bad idea, imo. Using raise dead zombies can work, but it's not all that reliable. First, you need to have a vampire within 12" of where you want to have your zombies.. and unless it's your vamp lord, it can be easily dispelled. The last thing you want is to rely on a hero-level vamp having to cast a spell to redirect the enemy's uber unit of death.
    If the spell is dispelled the first time, we VC can easily cast it a second time with the same wizard Necromantic skills, hehe

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
    Flanks add +1 to your side, and also negate ranks
    US 5 is a must for this one Skirmishers will not negate Rank Bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx
    So if there's a challenge then all the kills his knights did would be ignored? Thats extremely useful to know... I would have won that first combat that I had lost by 6 by 2 if I had known that. I'd rep you but I seem to have to pass it around a bit more before I can.
    The model in a challenge can only target, and so, only kill the challenger. If the wounds exceed what the opponent can live with, he will die and remaining wounds caused will count as Overkill The hits causing an Overkill will only count to CR, since the blows cannot hurt anyone else than the challenger...


    //N
    Last edited by Nagash; August 21st, 2009 at 18:21.

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    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    @ Phalanx: the DoC have a version of Villitch called The Blue Scribes of Tzeentch. They're a hero choice, and they gain a power dice for every successful spell we cast. So in an army where we're spamming IoN on a single dice, we're just handing them dice. Worst of all, we tend to have tons of powerdice (I average 15) but very few dispel dice (about 7). Tzeentch lists can have just as many powerdice, and then we go handing them more. We have to strike a tricky balance if we want to beat this.

    @ Nagash/Phalanx: I was fairly sure that in a challenge, you only count wounds between the two characters. So, for example:

    Exalted + 11 Warriors charge 25 skeletons, and challenge.

    In the challenge, the Exalted deals 3 wounds to the skeleton champion.
    In the combat, the Warriors kill 5 skeletons, and take 3 casualties in return.

    When it comes to figuring out wounds, only the wounds caused in the challenge count, so the WoC player gets 1w + 2overkill = +3 to CR. This is better than 1w+2overkill+5w = +8 to CR.

    I don't have my BRB with me right now, so if someone can double check this, I'd appreciate it. I'm not entirely sure how the rule is supposed to work, as I've seen it played both ways, and I don't want to steer anyone in the wrong direction.
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  10. #9
    High Priest of LO Nagash's Avatar
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    I can't check the Holy Rulebook in a week... However, I think you're wrong Captain...


    Nagash's right hand suddenly began to vibrate in a mystical way... What did he do?
    "I think it's the first time that we do not share the same oppinion, dear old Captain", he quietly whispered for himself as he smiled. "I will not let you oppose me."


    Suddenly, a black-cladded creature emerged in front of the Necromancer. "I challenge you", he said.

    He called himself "Phalanx", a name that would haunt the dreams of Nagash for decades.

    Just as Phalanx was ready to lower his blade into the breast of the foul Necromancer, Nagash disappeared right before his eyes in a cloud of Sand.

    "I will return!" were the last words Phalanx could hear... In this short story...

    Of course, there will be many additional stories to describe the life of the brilliant Phalanx!
    Don't bother to read that nonsence All the wounds that a unit inflicts should couont for CR


    //Nagash, the High Priest of LO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagash View Post
    If the spell is dispelled the first time, we VC can easily cast it a second time with the same wizard Necromantic skills, hehe
    Right, but hero-level vampire characters don't have nearly as many magic dice at their disposal. Typically 1-2 for the vamp himself, then 2 in the generic pool. This is hardly enough to get off a required spell that your opponent will really want to block.




    Exalted + 11 Warriors charge 25 skeletons, and challenge.

    In the challenge, the Exalted deals 3 wounds to the skeleton champion.
    In the combat, the Warriors kill 5 skeletons, and take 3 casualties in return.

    When it comes to figuring out wounds, only the wounds caused in the challenge count, so the WoC player gets 1w + 2overkill = +3 to CR. This is better than 1w+2overkill+5w = +8 to CR.
    You count all the wounds.

    So the WoC unit would have:
    - 3 wounds in the challenge
    - 5 wounds from regular guys
    - 1 rank
    - Presumably a banner
    For a total of +10.

    Vampires would have:
    - 3 ranks
    - mass
    - presumably a banner
    - 3 wounds from regular guys
    For a total of +8

    WoC unit would then win by 2.

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