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So I've been playing some games with the new Skaven list now that the book is out. At first, I was disappointed in the army since everything I had didn't really work that well anymore (read: Skryre). But there's strength in the book that I had underestimated. They've done fairly well so far, other than a trouncing they took at the hands of Nurgle Daemons.
I played a game against Lizards recently, here's how it worked out.
Here's my new skaven list:
Chieftain: Greatweapon, Heavy Armor, HW+Shield, BSB (Dripping Death banner)
Plague Priest: Scroll, Rival Hide
- Plague Furnace
Plague Priest: Scrollx2
- Plague Furance
30 Clanrats - FC, shields
26 Plague Monks - FC, Stormbanner
26 Plague Monks - FC
7 Censer Bearers
7 Censer Bearers
Hellpit - Spikes
Warp Lightning Cannon
Lizards were a stego list, with the following...
Skink Priest - Scrollx2
Skink Priest - Extra spell, save dispel dice item?
Skink Chief - Impact spear, BSB
There are some woods flanking the center, but there's about 24" of clear space width-wise before the woods start. There's also a defensive obstacle in his DZ. Some hills, but they don't matter here.
He's got 2 skinks on the left, all stegos in the center, skinks + terradons on the right.
Stegos go: normal, normal, engine, BSB, engine, normal
I have queek's clanrats in the center. Plague monks on its right, slaves to the right of that, anchored by the hellpit and censers. Going to the left of queek's unit is slaves, slaves, other plague monks, censer bearers, and the cannon in the far back.
BSB joins queek in the clanrats.
I win the roll for 1st turn and take it.
I advance, but slowly. Queek's unit doesn't move, the plague units only move about 4-5". This lets the slaves run forward and get ahead of everyone else to mess with stego charges and such. They make sure to stay within 12" of Queek, though, to stay LD10. Hellpit moves forward 11". Censer bearers also advance some, staying in terrain.
Cannon takes sight of a stego, with a path to hit a second one but the bounce/strength is only 4. This hits the target but fails to wound. Doesn't reach second stego.
He has more shooting than me with the bolt throwers so doesn't move up much.. just one skink unit to force the plague monks on the left to charge (censor bearers are in woods and out of sight). Magic is blocked for the most part, but he does put up the ward vs. ranged attacks with one engine. Shooting doesn't do much, kills a couple of plague monks.
Monks on the left charge and skinks flee. Puts the unit in charge range of one (regular) stego. Censer bearers on left move to be able to see out of the woods to counter charge said stego. Hellpit rolls high and reaches skinks on the right. They pass terror and stand&shoot - cause two wounds and fail both regen. Slaves move up again right in his face, with overrun angles to miss units behind them.
Cannon fires again but gets 10" extra which just overshoots the target (I really need practice with cross table guessing).
Hellpit explodes skinks, causing terradons to panic and flee off the board. Hellpit unfortunately overruns off the board. This means he'll completely miss my turn 3.
He charges one stego into the plague monks on the left. The others still hesitate to charge anything with the slaves blocking him from anything important. Shooting kills 4 or 5 from queek's unit. Magic put a wound on one of his priests when he miscast.
In combat, the stego impact hits kill 2, and I lose another 3 from toughness checks from my censer & furnace. However, all the skink crew dies to toughness checks. Stego kills another monk. I also cause a wound with the priests' flail. I lost 6 plague monks, he lost 4 crew + 1 wound on stego. I have static res, he's stubborn. He's outside BSB range but passes the check.
Slaves on the right charge the flank of a regular stego to lock it up, but the other monks end up being 9.5" away from it, so they charge, too (slaves were flank, these guys front). Censer bearers on the left counter charge the first stego. Censer guys on the right move to charge next turn.
Another unit of slaves charges an engine to lock it in place, too, and potentially kill the priest (it's the wounded one) with some luck. This is the engine that's on the left of the trio of character stegs.
Cannon is blocked by furnace & combats, so it moves to shoot next turn. Hellpit returns to the board, but compulsory moves are over already so it sits there.
Combat on the left has the stego fail one of the multitude of toughness checks it needs. It also sees the censers on the right hit a ton, but fail to wound but once with it being T6. Wrecker ball misfires and causes a wound to itself. He only killed 1, so I still won combat and am still frenzy. He's stubborn and passes.
On the right, 4 of the crew die to toughness checks, the stego also takes a wound. I then do another wound with the priest. This wrecker misfires, too, but I pass the toughness checks on my unit. I win combat, he's stubborn and passes.
The slaves don't kill the priest, but do win combat. He's stubborn and passes.
Here come the counter charges. The skink chief BSB counter charges the slaves that charged the engine. With his positioning, an overrun of 9+ will hit Queek's unit when the slaves break/explode. That was poor positioning on my part. A second stego charges each plague monks. The one on the right getting flanked by the second engine.
He double flares with the engines, kills off some guys here or there. No major damage, though.
The chief/BSB has the super spear and crushes slaves. Another unit of nearby slaves break from panic. His overrun is 11". I pass terror and take the charge with queek's unit. Hopefully he doesn't roll too high to overcome the impact hits.
On the left, all skinks die to toughness checks. I do finish off original wounded stego but the other survives (takes 1 wound) and passes the break check. Unit is down to about 10 monks now. I'm about to start losing the ability to move, but it doesn't matter as I'm in combat with his expensive stuff.
On the right, I challenge with my plague priest and his skink priest has to accept. It's after toughness checks, though, since that's very start of combat. I manage to pick off the priest, though, with mine + the attacks from the guys pushing the furnace. He wins combat by 1 in the end, and the slaves break/explode but do nothing. Furnace is still around so monks unbreakable.
Censer bearers on the right counter charge the stego not in a challenge (and overrun, since that's all they were engaged with). Abomination moves towards the unengaged engine. Slaves are in range of queek, but they fail to rally and run (they'll eventually go off the board).
Cannon takes a shot at the unengaged engine, but strength is only a 2 and does nothing.
Combat sees the steg on the left put a wound on the priest, and take one in return. It has 3 left. Passes its stubborn check.
Combat on the right sees toughness checks kill off the crew on the priest steg. Censer bearers finish off the wounded steg not in a challenge. The now engine-less steg passes break check.
Now the important combat: his impact hits=2(+2). Lucky. Impacts kill 4. Now my BSB banner goes off and kills off all his crew, his chief passes some kind of 2+ save vs first wound thing he has. Queek has to challenge and he can't refuse. He's got 3 attacks that hit on 5's and 3 that hit on 4's, all strength 6. He ends up hitting with 3 and wounding with all 3. Hm, if I don't pass a 6+ save, queek dies.
I make 2, actually, doing no wounds with the bounced hits. Queek's attacks, though, kill the chief and put a wound on the stego. I win, he passes his break check.
Now I was lucky here, but even if things went average, I still wound have won the combat. Figure average:
- 9 impact hits, kills 7.
- Stego hits 1, Chief hits 1.5 vs. Queek, causes 2 wounds that get past save.
So he's got 9 to combat res.
My BSB banner causes 3 wounds on average. Queek then kills the Chief for another 2. I have 5 to combat res, plus 3 ranks, banner, mass, BSB for 11. I've killed his BSB, so I still win 11-9.
My opponent, though, latches onto that roll for why he lost. Meh.
Other engine stego charges into queek's unit, too. Skinks on the left had been moving up and now charge cannon. Other skinks on the left move and shoot the hellpit - only 2 are in range, but two poison wounds rolled and both get past regen. Down to 2 left. I hate skinks :p
In the left plague combat, I finally finish off the second steg when it fails 2 of the 6 toughness checks it needs and the priest gets its last wound. Censers are down to 3 models, plague unit is down to 3 monks and so can't move (but priest is alive as is furnace). Combat on the right sees the stego kill off the plague priest taking one wound in return (4 left), but loses combat. Passes its check.
Center combat sees new impacts kill 3. The BSB banner, which he had to touch, kills off the priest and 3 crew. Queek has nobody to challenge with priest dead. His attacks wound BSB and Queek (each down to 1 left). Queek wounds a stego in return. BSB causes one more with his great weapon.
Amazingly, both fail their stubborn checks and break. One is caught, the other flees and hits the stego fighting monks in the flank on the right. It does 3 wounds with the impact hits, leaving it with 1 left. The one that got away has 4 wounds remaining.
Hellpit charges the fleeing steg that's about 4" away but it gets away. Censers on the right rejoin the combat with the steg that's fighting the monks - which has only 1 wound left after the other one ran through it. Censers on the left hit the last unit of skinks on the left.
Combat sees him kill cannon with skinks. Skinks fighting censers are wiped out. The stego charged by censers gets killed. The plagues they fought are down to 5, so it can't move either.
Last stego rallies. He has 4 wounds left. Only other unit is some skinks, they hide.
Stego is charged by 3 censers and the hellpit. They finish off the steg before it can do anything.
He had only one skink unit left, capturing a table quarter.
- Wounded Queek
- Wounded BSB
- Plague Priest
- 2 Furnaces
- 2 below-half plague monks
- Below half hellpit
- Full censers
- below half censers
I also had 3 table quarters and killed his general. Don't remember if I get his BSB, since the stego didn't run on the turn I killed him off the top.
nice battle report
I play skink heavy lists very often and see that against skaven, having to make many toughness checks will make it hard to do well with the low T of skinks.
one thing I noticed about your opponents list is that if his skink chief had the warspear, it uses all the points he is allowed for magic items, he shouldnt have had the 2+ ward item as well.
Why did the chicken cross the road?
For the greater good.
um lizards dont have a 2+ ward save, anywhere, so the lizard player must have misunderstood the wording of the howadith is all i can think of.
there is a magic item that grants a 2+ ward against the first wound you take, then it goes away. can't think of the name of it as I never use it personally.
Why did the chicken cross the road?
For the greater good.
right right right, my bad
Either way, it's a good report
And, here's my take on Stegadons in general:
Stegadons may be a nice, strong unit but, they are rather fragile in their latest incarnation, due to the fact that the skink crew can be picked off by your opponent in CC. With this nerf, the Lizardmen player have got to be a bit more careful when it comes to playing with them, skink characters riding stegadons that are caught in CC with powerful champions/heroes/lords, usually end up dying most of the time as soon as a challenge is issued, as there is no way that the skink character can avoid it.
This usually results in leaving a massive chunk of points (for the lizardmen player) floating on the Engines/Anceint Stegs /Stegs, from what I see from the list that you've provided from you opponent, it's 405 points for just the Scroll caddy and, 395 points for the other priest; 800 points on just the priests alone and being just a couple of level 2 wizards (with the combined effects of the engines) makes for a pretty paultry magic offense and a pretty solid magic defense, where IMO the two Engines can't make their points worth whichever way you slice it.
Yeah, he can try to charge the beasties into combat, but no, they can't make much of a dent with just 3 attacks and just hoping on luck to gets enough impact hits, but is just that; dependence on luck. The reality of the situation is, he stands a good chance of losing the priest in CC and nullifying the Engine's effectiveness. How to avoid this? Keep the Engines away from any CC unit with S5 or higher, as soon as that happens, bye-bye priest and Engine (even though the Ancient Steg. is alive, it can only be used by the priest).
Although all the Stegadon types are tough, their skink crew and characters are most definitely not, be careful where they are placed and pick fights against the right units, flanks might be tempting, but it might go horribly wrong if there is a character/powerful champ. in the unit
I can see that the Lizardmen list is there just for shouts and giggles, and don't take my advice as some sort of rant/moan (as it isn't), it's just my take on the Stegadons on a tactical view
Last edited by Kai-Itza; November 24th, 2009 at 09:32.
Hmm... most books have limit you to not be able to take magic items if your BSB carries a magic banner, but if you have a plain BSB you can take magic items (but then not a magic banner). Are Lizards different? And I'm not sure who his general was, presumably one of the skink priests - but his leadership was pretty much the same across the board in terms of his stubborn values for stego's.
And I agree that the character stego's don't really want to fight very strong characters, but it's still tough to play against. They have 12" charges, and if 2 or even 3 stego's charge a single unit, it's really going to hurt. Plus, not every army has something to deal with 6 rampaging dinosaurs. :p
The skink chief is legal. You can have a banner and magic items as long as you don't also have a magic banner. If you actually had the ward save item vs. the first wound suffered then it was illegal has he would have had to many points in magic.
In this setup one of the skink priests would be the general.
The one illegal thing in the list is the one priest that has both the plaque of tepok and the diadem of power. Both are arcane items, so he can't take both.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
There's not much there that I don't like - the cannon is still very random, but always ignoring armor saves regardless of strength is a nice boon. Considering it's cheaper, and more easily able to hit targets across the field, I'm happy with the changes it's gotten - I only slightly miss the ability to shoot through forrests. :p
I'm just still getting used to playing a fighty infantry list as opposed to the cav-based vampires, it's been a long time since I've been using M5 blocks that want to fight. Previously, my skaven were magic-oriented.