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League Match #1 vs Lizardmen:
Played against a good friend of mine today with my Warriors of Chaos. He ran Lizardmen which I found today are extremely sick in the Magic phase! It was my first battle vs them with my Warriors. It was my 4th game with Warriors >_>
WoC list: (mine)
Sorc Lord: Tz, Charmed, Puppet, Ironcurse Icon, Talis: Preserve
Hero: BSB, Tz, Shield, Third Eye, Book of Secrets, Dispel Scroll
41 Marauders: Khorne, Greater Wep, FC
18 Warriors: FC, Tz, Halberd, Shield, Banner of Flame
14 Warriors: FC, Tz, Shield (Sorc here)
17 Warriors: FC, Khorne, Halberds, Shields (BSB here)
Lizardmen list: (rough guess)
Slann + TG - had cupped for sure
2x 25 man saurus blocks with a saurus leader in each one
1 skink priest
2 flamer dinos
(thats all I could remember off the top of my head)
We deploy like so...
Flamer Dinos ==== Saurus Block 1 ==== TG + Slann ==== Razordons ==== Saurus Block ==== Skinks + Priest
Dogs = Shrine = Dogs w/ Marauders behind == Khorne Wars + BSB == 2x HCs == Tz Wars + Sorc == Tz Wars == Dogs
Liz - He shuffles around. Moves skinks up and shooters. Slann rolls double 1's for magic! Yes! He gets off throne and I fail to stop it on one dispel dice.
WoC - I march everything up except 1 Hellcannon that stays on a hill. Dogs on right shuffle to give my Wars soft cover. Dogs on left shuffle to give my Marauders a Screen. In the Magic Phase I get off Pandemonium and I IF Infernal Gateway on Saurus Block on the right...and...and...I roll an 11 for the Str value so they get sucked into the Realm of Chaos! Shooting really sucks for the HCs all game...I will probably just run them up and destroy things in combat from now on...I forgot to dispell his throne which screws over my Pandemonium + Puppet combo since he can discard miscasts on 2+ now.
Liz - Ok now I start to see how scary Liz are in the magic phase. He rolls Dwellers for my Marauders and I have to dispel scroll it. I can't lose so many of them yet! He gets some buffs off on his Razordons that are going to get charged by my HC next turn. The 4+ regen save and +4 Toughness. Ouch..this isn't going to be easy for my HC anymore I dispel thrones at the end of the magic phase. He failed to dispel Pandemonium.
WoC - Everything marches up again. HC gets it's charge off and loses 4 wounds to the stand and shoot from the Razordons. (2 on HC and 2 lost on crew) 2 artillery dice when they stand and shoot! I do 1 wound because of their insane toughness. Ouch...Magic phase wiffs because he dispels everything. Only spell I get off is +2 T on my Marauders who will have charge range next turn.
Liz - His shooting puts 2 Tz warriors down in the Flaming Banner squad. Puts 1 wound on my HC in the back. His magic rolls really low again, I think he got a 4 (2x 2s) He casts dwellers I believe on my Marauders and kills...16! Dang...
WoC - Marauders and Khorne Warriors with BSB charge and make it into the TG + Slann. Both Tz warriors on the right side both march up again, Tz warriors with the Sorc Lord turning to face off the skinks on the right and Tz Warriors with Flame Banner turning left to go help kill the Slann. I just learn that the Slann cannot be hurt by my normal attacks...ouch...I can't hurt him other than spells now! The BSB challenges and he accepts with the champion. I obliterate it. My Khorne Wars (5 got to attack) kill I think 6 or so TG. He kills 3 Marauders and 1 Warrior. My Marauders who got +1A for Khorne and +1A in my Eye of the Gods roll for my Warshrine. 3 A each at 5S WS4...ouch...I wipe out the rest of the TG the Slann is sitting with. He needs double 1's to pass LD. Was hoping he would fail LD so I could chase and kill him because now I can't "win combat" to try to kill him by chasing him down because he has nothing in his unit anything I can kill and none of my guys can touch him because of no magic weapons...He rolls double 1s! Yay...My hellcannons prey no longer has +4 T and I decimate them.
Liz - My friend has an appointment to go to and hes pretty much already out of the game with so much of his stuff gone...he shuffles skinks a bit and shoots my Tz warriors that were facing them and kills 1. He shoots my Warshrine that is marked Tz and it passes all its saves. He rolls low on magic and I am able to dispel his casts. I can't hurt his Slann so we stare at each other and he does nothing.
WoC - I move my Warshrine in front of his Saurus block that is now in position to flank my Marauders side. So now he has to charge my Shrine. My 2 HC's one has only 1 W left and no crew all turn to face the Skinks. I spam Infernal Gateway on his Slann and he fails to dispel it. I roll 4 hits...at S8, and he passes all ward saves but 1. Again his Slann and my non magic attack guys stare at each other...
Liz - Skinks kill 1 War and Slan and Wars + Marauders stare at each other some more. Shrine holds up and passes all saves.
WoC - 2x HC + Tz Wars all charge Skinks and obliterate them. Nothing dies in the stand and shoot. My BSB and Marauders and Wars just sit around...being sad that they are now stuck in combat with something they can't hurt...nothing in my army can really hurt...but...I cast Infernal Gateway again on the Slann and roll lots of hits and high Str and he fails all the saves and dies.
All that's left are the Flamer dinos and 1 block of Saurus so we call it because he has to go. Was a fun game and there was some rule misinterpretations but he was a very fun opponent and good friend. Wish he didn't have to rush to leave though so we could have talked about the match. Was only my 4th game with WoC but good game nonetheless!
-I really like the Warshrine as being my unit I was looking for. I had filled it with Chaos Knights before and was usually disappointed. With the Shrine's lower point cost I can bulk up my Warrior units a lot more to be sturdier from shooting. In a way countering War Machines by allowing me to have more models by the time I cross the board.
-I really need to measure space between my units as I deploy. My 2 Tz warriors were stuck behind each other because I didn't have enough room to place my Flame Banner Tz Warriors between the HC and the other warrior block...
-Dogs are awesome as usual. Blocking and giving me soft covers is great. They never killed anything but for their point cost and use they were wonderful.
-I really like the 3rd Eye + Book of Secrets BSB I have. He's already great in combat but now he can jack spells and case whatevers. I was able to save a lot of Marauders by giving them Flesh to Stone from their Slann!
-One of my downfalls from my last games was probably lack of threats on the board. I ran much bigger and less blocks before. Now I have essentially 4 CC threats, 3 Warrior Blocks and 1 Marauder block. Makes it easier to do flanking tactics and the like.
-Hellcannons function the same way they normally do for me...really crappy at shooting and amazing at combat. I'm seriously thinking of just running them in from the start and never even shooting them!
-Tz Sorc Lord was amazing. I honestly have never tried Lore of Tz because of all the hype with Shadow and Heavens. I love it! Not just for the +1 casting and +1 Ward but the spells are great. Miscasts on any doubles at such a low cast is great. Panda is probably my favorite spell! Even though my Infernal Gateway absorbed an entire Saurus block on turn 1.
-Warshrine is amazing. Giving all my Champions eotgs rolls and then units later on as well. Love it! +1 A on my Marauders was just plain sick o_o They didn't even get to Horde it up!
Last edited by Syypher; August 4th, 2011 at 06:37.
Sounds like a good game. I won't say that his list was particularly optimal, at least, not compared to the hell I've been put through at the hands of my friend's LM army, which looks a bit more like this:
Slann w/ TG, +1 dice to each cast, removes 6's from casting attempts, Loremaster (life), +5 on Dispel Attempts
Skink BSB on a Stegadon Ancient w/ Giant Blowpipes (3D6 S3 shots), deals 2D6+1 S6 Impact hits
2x L2 Skink Priests w/ Lore of Heavens
2x 18 Saurus Warriors w/ Spears and FC
34 Skinks horded w/ 4 Kroxigors
You lucked out on pulling those Saurus Warriors off the table in a hurry, I can't seem to find in the report if you managed to contact/kill the other block of 25. I'm interested in your reaction to how the big brutes fare in a scrum. Pounding the TG was a good move, but remember- your Banner of Eternal Flame supposedly gives you magical attacks, so you could've beat on his Slann if you wanted.
He misplayed Pandaemonium- that should've been utterly game-destroying for you. If I were in the Slann's shoes, with Cupped Hands moving miscasts to the enemy (or did you mean Higher State of Being or whatever makes him ethereal?) and Throne making me safe from miscasts on a 2+ I'd have thrown as many dice as possible at casting attempts and passed as many miscasts onto you as I could.
Tzeentch is an iffy lore to me. You pointed out the two best spells that you're going to throw most of the time- Pandaemonium and Gateway. Did you get to mess around with Treason at all? Treason can do about as much damage as Dwellers if you target it to a unit with higher Strength than Toughness. The trouble is that it doesn't work on ItPsy guys. Gateway is just a boosted Fireball unless you catch that 1/18 chance at yanking them off the table, and Pandaemonium is nice for shutting down their casting but they usually just get rid of it in their phase and go about their business.
I'm glad you've found a happy medium with threats on the table. Hellcannons are cool, but maybe 2 is a bit overkill? They're good in combat, but for the price you could pick up more Warriors or 40 more Marauders. That BSB is a beast isn't he? He does suffer from a lack of protection, but otherwise he's pretty awesome at being a major pain in your opponent's backside- don't forget that he counts as a channeling attempt too. Still surprised that you like the hounds- especially against Lizardmen where they really don't do much.
If you meet this guy again, maybe suggest that he drops his Saurus to 24 and goes 4x6, ditches the Salamanders (fire dinos) for more Razordons and fields the Razor packs in front of his units, forcing you to charge them for the massive S&S reaction? He seems like a stand-up guy, and a good opponent, it's worth fostering a gaming relationship with people like that.
Ya the guys been my friend since middle school
About vs his warriors. No his warriors on the left side I never engaged. He was out of position for a turn and I had blocked with my Warshrine by the time he repositioned to try to get into combat with my Marauders.
About his misplaying Pandemonium. He used cupped hands once but that's all he can do. It says in their book "One use only" so he can't keep passing miscasts over and over. I then used my puppet to change the miscast on my guy to something not so painful. Also with his Throne of Vines I made sure to dispel it so he couldn't make use of the 2+ protection from miscasts.
I'd like to try treason on some high S low T guys. Maybe if I go up against something with that...
On my BSB...I like him the way he is really. Having 3rd eye to steal spells and being able to be my Dispel Scroll caddy on a very strong CC model is already great. He is Tz so he has +1 to casting but doesn't need to take lore of tz since book of secrets lets me choose between Fire Shadow or Death. So he's essentially casting as a L2 wizard Also he has a shield and being Tz he gets that 5+ parry in combat on top of his 3+ AS. He's already survivable as it is and stronger than most other armies bare heroes. Seems logical to me and it really worked out well this game. Stealing Stone to Skin to buff my Marauders was great and helped them survive vs his TG a lot more.
On a side note because a lot of people have been asking me this: He can carry an arcane item because Book of Secrets is changed in the FAQ. It now is suppose to say "Treat bearer as a L1 wizard..etc. etc." So he is a wizard and can carry my dispel scroll!
Ya..about the dogs..I like them because they gave me soft cover from his skinks and also redirected the Saurus block I never fought for a turn. Which bought my Marauders time to destroy the TG.
He was running his Saurus at 24. I thought it was 25 but I looked back and it was 24 + Saurus Scar Vet.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. It's interesting what you say about the Hellcannons. I really like them and would like to keep them. They are like our very own Hydras But I guess it will come down now to weighing in what I can have in place of them and their own strengths. Definitely willing to try it out though. Do you have any experience with running just 1 Hellcannon alongside 1 Warshrine? HCs seem really really good for their points.
Last edited by Syypher; August 5th, 2011 at 03:18.
It works well against Bestigors if you ever play Beastmen, they are T4 which is good but they're S6 which is beastly. They pretty much chew themselves to pieces. I casted it on a unit of 40 Bestigors and it killed 18 of them. That's 18 specials dead in one spell.I'd like to try treason on some high S low T guys. Maybe if I go up against something with that...
Anyway, great report ... glad to see it.
I will drink your milk shake! I will drink it up!
I just bought my wife a mini-van, the gods of Chaos have nothing on reality.
Yep- haha, you didn't need to explain the BSB to me, I run the exact same model.
I meant to say that he should run the Saurus at 6 wide and 4 ranks, they're like Warriors, you don't want too many extra ranks just standing around.
My usual 2.5k list is a Hellcannon and a Warshrine. When you're deploying, treat them exactly like you'd treat a pair of hellcannons, except that the Warshrine goes across from the unit that you just want to hold up, and the Cannon goes across from the unit you'd like to hold up and/or kill horribly.
Cupped Hands is OUO? ...somebody has some 'splaining to do to me then... my friend's been threatening it all game. Oh well, we like to play mind games with each other- he's never cheated and used it twice (other people have though) but he's never said that it was a once-and-done thing. Well played game from the both of you then. Good work.
I love treason on HE swordmasters... May even need to reroll to hit as they have same init .
“The ultimate philosophical question, “Am I human or machine” is answered by many people, “I don’t care, as long as I am”
- Myron Krueger
@MightisRight : I hate to burst your bubble buddy, but they unfortunately don't. pg 66 of the Island of Blood rule book. "If the model with this rule is fighting an enemy with the same ability, the Attacks are made simultaneously, and neither model benefits from the re-rolls normally granted by this rule." The upside to this is that if you have a character in a duel with the Helm of Many Eyes, then the Knife Ear won't get his re-rolls against you, and you are guaranteed a chance to squish him
Yeah, I thought so but I wasn't sure.
“The ultimate philosophical question, “Am I human or machine” is answered by many people, “I don’t care, as long as I am”
- Myron Krueger
just putting it out there bout cupped hands.. one of the guys i play regularly has a lot of explaining to do.. he passes on every miscast he does..
but yeah, i love the list.. considering the BSB outfit for my army.. how many points is it total (for the hero)?