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Hey folks. My friends and I came across a perplexing rule problem and we could not find a proper description in the rules.
This is the scenario:
Movement Phase: A unit of Black Orcs is charged in the front by a Vampire Count and his Skeletons and in the flank by a Banshee.
Shooting Phase: The Banshee (as per her special rules) howls into the combat as a shooting attack. The resulting casualities force a Panic test and the Black Orcs fled.
The question is: Could the Vampires unit and the Banshee then pursue the Black Orcs?
We ruled no as the combat rules state you have to win the combat before you can pursue.
As the combat hadn't started no pursue rolls could be made.
What would have happened if the Banshee Howl had occured in the second combat? Or even if another external source of Panic (a spell for example) came into play?
We turned the book upside down looking for the ramifications of Panic affecting a combat and we couldn't find ANYTHING.
Plenty on Break Tests but nothing on the ramifications of Panic somehow affecting a combat.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Psychology Rules - Panic - 25% casualties section, First line: ....at the end of any phase (except the close combat phase)....
Therefore, there would be no panic as caused by casaulties. However, its still a valid point as the situation may arise. Say, if some skaven units charge into combat then the supporting warpfire thrower hits some of the enemy models (unlikely I know) it'll cause a panic test. Suppose the unit flees (and theres some of yours to follow), what then?
I'd have to follow the rules on flee and pursue, although combat hasn't been fought yet because of phases, base-2-base contact has been made. Yes, a unit will move more than its move distance in the pursuit, but its not too dissimilar from an overrun
So (in the situation) the Black Orcs would have to make the Panic test as they took the casualities from the howl in the Shooting phase (even though the Banshee is in hand to hand with them).
Your example about the Skaven is also valid. The Panic is caused in the Shooting phase WHILE a unit is in hand to hand.
Panic has been stream line a lot but nothing about it is mentioned in conjuction with hand to hand.
Ah yes, of course, my bad. I was checking up on the banshee rules and got carried away with the in combat bit =S
But refer to earlier in the Psych section, The pysch and break tests bit. Units in combat never take psych tests of any kind. Knew I'd seen it somewhere. Its all covered by the break tests.
I can see a future FAQ or rules re-write adding to the banshee rules that this counts towards combat res, like recurring impact htis. not sure skaven would go the same way, ud win every combat by pumping it full of ratlings and throwers.
(Further, the extra attack TK incantation can't force a break test or add to combat res either, IIRC)
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
Now I could be wrong here but isn't stand and shoot (which I realise this is not) done during the shooting phase? And it can cause panic. You can't overrun the unit if it panics in this manner either.
The stand and shoot is resolved before the unit is moved (or up to the edge of the defending unit's missile range).Now I could be wrong here but isn't stand and shoot (which I realise this is not) done during the shooting phase? And it can cause panic. You can't overrun the unit if it panics in this manner either.
It can cause panic because the unit isn't in combat yet.
The Extra TK attacks are able to force a panic check if enough wounds are caused. Thats the only case i know which ignores troops in CC being immune to Psychology.