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Say my unit of Ogres charches a unit of skaven. I inflict 6 wounds and lets say he inflicted none. His unit is 5 wide and sence i didnt allocate attacks to the musician, champion, or standard only two would die from the front right and another 4 would be taken from the back correct? and in theory could I allocate attacks to each of those seperate models? like one ogre attacks the standard while another attacks the musician? just use different colored dice.
thanks in advance.
You cannot allocate attacks to standard bearers or musiscians. If you inflict enough wounds to wipe out the front rank then the champion is killed too and so you don't need to allocate against him either. Musiscians are only removed from the unit if there are no rank and file models left, standards only when breaking from combat or as with Musiscians.
Hope that things are clear for you now.
Actually, you have to allocate to kill a unit champion.
If you inflict 5 wounds as you said, the only model that can fight back is the unit champion. The front rank is assumed to be wiped out and the models in the second rank are assumed to pick up the banner and musical equipment.
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I'm pretty sure that if the entire front rank is wiped out the champion is among them. I think this came in in the 7th edition, check your rulebook- I don't have mine to hand.
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Well I can't argue with two people without any evidence. I'm sure I've read it though. I'll check on the weekend and if you're right I'll finally accept (for once) that I am wrong. If I am right however I'll expect big apologies. Seems unlikely though.
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Might as well make it 3 people, the only way a champion won't get to attack is if you allocate an attack against him and kill him, that or you opponent refuses a challenge and he goes to the back rank.
Another one for the 'champions get to fight even if the front rank is destroyed'. Champions only die if specifically targeted, or if the entire unit is wiped out. Page 81 in the rulebook. Standard bearers and musicians can tecnically die, and don't get to strike back if the front rank is destroyed, but then someone else picks up the banner and drum/horn/whatever, so in reality you keep them until all the unit dies (or flees, in which case you drop the banner)
Like everyone says the champion only dies if you allocate attacks to him. In most units the champion will hve the same equipment, WS and T as the rest of the unit so he is just as easy to kill as the rest of the unit. In this case you have nothing to lose by allocating one attack against the champion since if it kills him you've killed the champion and if it fails it would have failed to kill a normal trooper anyway. Don't allocate more than one attack against the champ though because if they both would have killed him you can't carry the extra wound over.
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Good point Ancalagon, wounds don't carry over from the champion either. So the only instance where wounds would carry over between rank and file and the champion is when enough damage is dealt to kill the entire unit.