Character in chariot charging into terrain - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Character in chariot charging into terrain

    Had a situation come up the other day and no clue how to resolve it... I'd much appreciate it if someone could point me to the right place to find the answer.

    Basically, what happened was that I was up against a tomb kings army who had a Tomb King in a chariot. The Tomb King attempted a charge and the unit fled. The unit was close to the king and didn't flee very far, but they ran into terrain. Now the unit was <8" away... So the TK in his Chariot starts his charge forward, but the chariot is blown out from under him when he hits the terrain.

    What happens now? Does it end his movement and count as a failed charge? Can the TK continue to use the remaining movement he would have normally had to make the charge? We couldn't find anything that discussed the situation. The only relevant sections stated that a character in a chariot got out within 2" when it was destroyed.

    Thanks,

    moob


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  3. #2
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    The rules just don't cover it. You could just use whatever percentage of your charge move is left and apply it to the character's normal movement (similar to characters joining units), but even that feels a bit odd.

    This is one of those extreme cases that are difficult to cater for - you could just dice for it and say on a 4+ he got tangled in the wreckage and stops, 1-3 he get propelled forward in an unsightly but exceptionally heroic fashion and manages to cut them down.

    edit: After a bit more reading around, you could use the death of a monster mount as a basis - pg 61, last paragraph means the character is trapped at the point where his mount dies.
    Last edited by Rork; January 3rd, 2008 at 20:21.


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    Senior Member Munch's Avatar
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    been thinking i think that it would count as a failed charge and the chariot would stop at the edge of the forest

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    LO Zealot MobiusPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rork View Post
    edit: After a bit more reading around, you could use the death of a monster mount as a basis - pg 61, last paragraph means the character is trapped at the point where his mount dies.
    This is my usual go to for questions concerning characters in chariots. Treat the chariot as a monstrous mount! It has it's own profile for movement, attacks, wounds, strength and toughness - so why not. The only true difference are the special rules governing chariots (no marching, terrain destruction, impact hits, attacks only to front).

    On a similar note, something that has always bugged me and I just want clarification. If a unit of three Tomb King chariots hits terrain, but only one chariot actually hits the terrain - the others do not, the terrain damage to chariots only applies to that one chariot right? So if I rolled a six for number of hits, and did, say, five wounds, only one chariot would die because it was the only one to hit terrain - the other chariots do not suffer rollover wounds. Am I correct? Similarly, if two of the three chariots hit terrain, each chariot that came in contact with terrain would take D6 hits, and the other would...probably watch his two wingmen implode.

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    Thanks guys, appreciate the help.



    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusPrime View Post
    On a similar note, something that has always bugged me and I just want clarification. If a unit of three Tomb King chariots hits terrain, but only one chariot actually hits the terrain - the others do not, the terrain damage to chariots only applies to that one chariot right? So if I rolled a six for number of hits, and did, say, five wounds, only one chariot would die because it was the only one to hit terrain - the other chariots do not suffer rollover wounds. Am I correct? Similarly, if two of the three chariots hit terrain, each chariot that came in contact with terrain would take D6 hits, and the other would...probably watch his two wingmen implode.
    I would say the wounds do not carry over, treating the effect of hitting terrain similar to a weapon that does multi-wounds. Ie, extra wounds beyond the total of the model do not count.

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    LO Zealot MobiusPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moob View Post
    I would say the wounds do not carry over, treating the effect of hitting terrain similar to a weapon that does multi-wounds. Ie, extra wounds beyond the total of the model do not count.
    Oh boy. I was waiting for this can of worms to surface.

    If I have a Tomb King with the Flail of Skulls (counts as a flail, but does two wounds for every one he inflicts) and he charges into three Ogres (3 wounds a piece) and hits three times, and then wounds three times does he:

    A. Do a total of six wounds to the unit (3 wounds doubled = 6) and kills two Ogres outright? After all, these are generic attacks made against the unit as a whole and not allocated - thus creating a 'wound pool' that is used to kill complete models where capable.

    B. Do a total of five wounds to the unit because one wound is lost in the wound push from Ogre to Ogre. ie It is taken that the King continues to hit the first Ogre until he is dead, so he hits and wounds the first Ogre once (which equals two wounds) and then hits the first Ogre a second time and wounds him (which does another two wounds - four in total, but one is lost because the Ogre is killed when he has taken three) and then his last hit is against the second Ogre, does a wound (which equals two wounds) and then the second Ogre fights back because he isn't killed.

  8. #7
    Fun guy from Yuggoth Moglun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusPrime View Post
    Oh boy. I was waiting for this can of worms to surface.

    If I have a Tomb King with the Flail of Skulls (counts as a flail, but does two wounds for every one he inflicts) and he charges into three Ogres (3 wounds a piece) and hits three times, and then wounds three times does he:

    A. Do a total of six wounds to the unit (3 wounds doubled = 6) and kills two Ogres outright? After all, these are generic attacks made against the unit as a whole and not allocated - thus creating a 'wound pool' that is used to kill complete models where capable.

    B. Do a total of five wounds to the unit because one wound is lost in the wound push from Ogre to Ogre. ie It is taken that the King continues to hit the first Ogre until he is dead, so he hits and wounds the first Ogre once (which equals two wounds) and then hits the first Ogre a second time and wounds him (which does another two wounds - four in total, but one is lost because the Ogre is killed when he has taken three) and then his last hit is against the second Ogre, does a wound (which equals two wounds) and then the second Ogre fights back because he isn't killed.
    That's an interesting quandry. I'm going to go with a resounding 'B' on this one. If the excess wounds don't carry over from one model to another in the case of single wound models, it follows that they would not carry over on multiple wound models either, any more than cannonball wounds would.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusPrime View Post
    Oh boy. I was waiting for this can of worms to surface.

    If I have a Tomb King with the Flail of Skulls (counts as a flail, but does two wounds for every one he inflicts) and he charges into three Ogres (3 wounds a piece) and hits three times, and then wounds three times does he:

    A. Do a total of six wounds to the unit (3 wounds doubled = 6) and kills two Ogres outright? After all, these are generic attacks made against the unit as a whole and not allocated - thus creating a 'wound pool' that is used to kill complete models where capable.

    B. Do a total of five wounds to the unit because one wound is lost in the wound push from Ogre to Ogre. ie It is taken that the King continues to hit the first Ogre until he is dead, so he hits and wounds the first Ogre once (which equals two wounds) and then hits the first Ogre a second time and wounds him (which does another two wounds - four in total, but one is lost because the Ogre is killed when he has taken three) and then his last hit is against the second Ogre, does a wound (which equals two wounds) and then the second Ogre fights back because he isn't killed.

    I would go with "A". My original comment was directed at things that could potentially do more wounds to a model than it has total... Ie, someone rolls a "6" when wounding an ogre with a stone thrower. It doesn't then kill 2 ogres but one dies a horrible and ugly death. Since, in your example, the Flail of Skulls will not do more wounds than what's on an ogre's profile with a single hit, I'd count all of the extra wounds on every swing. Just my opinion, though, as it isn't specifically spelled out in such a circumstance..
    Last edited by moob; January 9th, 2008 at 17:02. Reason: Edit cause I argued for A while typing B... I r smart!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusPrime View Post
    Oh boy. I was waiting for this can of worms to surface.

    If I have a Tomb King with the Flail of Skulls (counts as a flail, but does two wounds for every one he inflicts) and he charges into three Ogres (3 wounds a piece) and hits three times, and then wounds three times does he:

    A. Do a total of six wounds to the unit (3 wounds doubled = 6) and kills two Ogres outright? After all, these are generic attacks made against the unit as a whole and not allocated - thus creating a 'wound pool' that is used to kill complete models where capable.

    B. Do a total of five wounds to the unit because one wound is lost in the wound push from Ogre to Ogre. ie It is taken that the King continues to hit the first Ogre until he is dead, so he hits and wounds the first Ogre once (which equals two wounds) and then hits the first Ogre a second time and wounds him (which does another two wounds - four in total, but one is lost because the Ogre is killed when he has taken three) and then his last hit is against the second Ogre, does a wound (which equals two wounds) and then the second Ogre fights back because he isn't killed.
    Its B. Extra wounds do not carry over.

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    LO Zealot MobiusPrime's Avatar
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    I have to argue for A. Who's to say where those attacks are going. The king doesn't say 'I'll put my first attack here and then my second here and my third one here, and woops, I missed with my fourth' - he just says 'I'm putting my attacks into the unit'. The highest ammount of wounds you can do per model is 3, and since each attack is only doing 2, no wounds are lost. It creates a 'wound pool' that the Ogres draw from to pull casualties - pulling one Ogre for every three wounds in the pool.

    Think of it this way - what if the Tomb King had a weapon that does D6 wounds instead of 1 wound for each hit. (I am sure there are weapons in the Warhammer world that actually do this, I'm just not familiar with them - I'll refer to it as Wyrmslayer) And is faced with the same situation as I mentioned before (charges three ogres, attacks four times and hits with three).
    Now let's go on to say that for the Kings D6 wounds per hit, he rolls a 2, a 4 and a 6. Again, the highest wounds that can be struck per model is 3 (because the Ogres are 3 wound creatures). So in essence, the King really rolled a 2, and a 3 and another 3 - the 4 and the 6 become threes, because the king cannot cause more wounds than can be inflicted at any time. Two Ogres die, and the third one has two wounds on it.
    As an aside note for support, the notion that 'multi-wounding' weapons do not work on single wound enemies is false. It does work, just that the highest wounds you can attain from your D6 is 1. In the case of the flail, the highest wounds you can do per model is 1, so the second wound is lost.

    It's also the same as if you hit the Ogre unit with a blast template from a catapult. Lets say you catch one dead on, and the other is caught under a partial. Let's say that both hits wound. Catapults do D6 wounds to enemies. Let's say for each hit, you rolled a 2 - for a total of 4 wounds. You wouldn't put two wounds on each Ogre and have them each hanging out with a single wound remaining - you take casualties as wound characteristics are met. You would kill one Ogre, and the second Ogre would have a single wound put on it.
    What if you rolled a 5 and a 6 for the two wounds? - that woudn't be fair to the third Ogre to be killed, because he wasn't even hit by the template. Remember though, that you really can't roll any higher than the wound characteristics of the enemy, so that five and six are actually just a pair of threes - both Ogres that were under the template die, and the third one takes a crap in his pants.

    Going back to my original situation (the King with the Flail vs Ogres). The only time where the Flails extra wounds would be lost is if the King specifically called out that he is putting two attacks against a character or champion, and then two attacks against the unit. It would be as if the King is creating two 'wound pools'; one for his attacks against the unit, and one for his attacks against the champion. If he hit and wounded the Champion twice (which would develop four wounds), the fourth wounds would be lost as it cannot jump from pool to pool because it was specifically aimed at the unit champion and not into the unit. (Now that I think about it, this would be the same for the Wyrmslayer type weapon too)

    edit: I just went and reread what moob said. We're on the same page.

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