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  1. #1
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    I've recently tried out my errantry war army against a dwarf slayer army. One word for the dwarves: cheese. Strait up cheese. They can take up to 6 doom seekers in a 2000 pt army that can easily each take out a full regiment of any other type of troop. That's a 65 pt character that is easily stronger in HTH than a 300+ pt unit.

    Question: When I charge a doom seeker with a normal regiment, do I have to center the dwarf on my unit? If I provide "maximum frontage" by putting him centered on the second man in my front rank, then he is in base to base with three models (maximum). The dwarf player was saying I had to put him on the 3rd model, so he would get the extra 4+ hits.

    Question: How do you work out the doom seeker hits and wounds? It says that any model in btb is autohit. So does that mean that those three dice are roled separately and only those results can wound the front rank? Anyone in btb with those 3 take a hit on 4+. Does that mean that each of these models takes a maximum of 1 hit? If I have models with multiple wounds in the regiment, it sounds like they can each only take one wound.

    Question: If I have a character with 4 wounds in the front rank, and the doom seeker gets 3 btb autohits and 7 other 4+ hits, can the doom seeker player assign all of several of these hits to the character? The text sounds like he can only take a maximum of one hit.

    Jack of all trades, master of none.

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  3. #2
    Keeper of Records and Ale King Ulrik Flamebeard's Avatar
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    1372 (x8)

    Question 1:

    I'd say the unit has to aligne to get as many attackers into combat as possible, so if this would mean that three are in btb instead of two then that is what has too be done.

    Question 2:

    The models in B-T-B each recieve a single hit each, roll to wound for each on seperate dice. So each model can only be hit once, so all those in btb recieve a autohit, then on a 4+ those in btb with them recieve one hit.

    Question 3:

    No, each model can only be hit unless it otherwise says that you can allocate attacks. So the hero would only recieve one hit, the exception to this is if the unit is less than the number of hits. Then the hits go back around again and the heros has a chance of being hit again.

    BTW why are they cheese? It's one model for 65pts, one model that's not a character and can be taken down with a little bit of shooting. The list is one of the best and most balanced one's released.

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    It was cheesy the way he said I had to allocate wounds. He was counting total hits up, rolling to wound, then saying I had to allocate those wounds to the front rank first. So, I inevitably lost my front rank every round, giving me no chance to strike back. Rolling the autohits and 4+ hits separately makes a lot more sense to me.
    He was counting each doomseeker as an independent character. But, even still, I had no archers in the battle. The only archers I can take are with the blood dragon army or on a lamian vampire.

    Thanks for the reply.

    Now, more questions. With the griminir magic resistance thing, are those dice cumulative, and can they be used more than once per magic phase?

    Say, I try to cast a spell on my skeletons and he has 4 dwarf units within 6" of them that all have a griminir 6" magic resistance thing. Does that give him 4 extra dispell dice? If he uses them all, can he use them again if I cast another spell on the same unit?
    Jack of all trades, master of none.

  5. #4
    Keeper of Records and Ale King Ulrik Flamebeard's Avatar
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    1372 (x8)

    Ok your welcome.

    The thing about allocating is that it's only done if the model is a independant model (ie a character model) and then he must choose to aim all his attacks at one model or split them between ones in btb. But one thing you do have to take the wounds off of the front rank first, it's always the rule. Any wounds caused are taken by the first rank, thus any deaths will result in the loss of attacks.

    And no MR is NOT added up, he would only get to use 2MR as you take the highest and use that. And MR is always there, whenever a spell is used against him etc then he'll get these tewo dice if the spell is cast against him or the unit he's in etc.

    I hope this helps

    Thanks, KU

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    Senior Member Mead's Avatar
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    Concerning the doomseeker and multiple wound creatures: since each model is only hit once, you'd think that at most they'd only lose one wound each. However the general rule is to remove whole models, so if a unit of three trolls suffers a wound each, wouldn't you remove one troll?

  7. #6
    Keeper of Records and Ale King Ulrik Flamebeard's Avatar
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    1372 (x8)

    Hmm.. you know I suppose you would. You do have to remove whole models and yes they would suffer one wound each, I suppose that's an exception to the rules.

    Thanks, KU

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    What ever the ruling is, the doom seekers definitely rate an Errata / Q & A from GW. The book is unclear about how they work, and they seem to go against several standard rules (hits go before close combat, 1 hit per model, impact hits, etc).
    Jack of all trades, master of none.

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    Keeper of Records and Ale King Ulrik Flamebeard's Avatar
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    1372 (x8)

    Not really, as there are many things that hit before those. They seem quite balanced it's just how the rules are interprated by the players they tend to cause problems etc.

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    Exactly. The rule should be stated so as to eliminate any room for interpretation. This is how I see the rule after reading all of this...

    20 man regiment of skeletons with a vampire count + innocence lost (always strikes first or on initiative if opponent strikes first too)

    Skeletons get the charge.

    X-skeleton, Y-vampire, Z-doomseeker dwarf

    Z is line up across from X4.
    _________Z
    X1 X2 X3 X4 Y1
    X5 X6 X7 X8 X9
    Xa Xb Xc Xd Xe
    Xf Xg Xh Xi Xj

    We enter close combat...

    Since the wording of innocence lost specifically says that they go on initiative order, the vampire strikes first with initiative of 9.
    Then, if the doomseeker is still alive, he automatically hits X3, X4, and Y1. Role to wound these models, roling the vampire separately. Role any armor saves / ward saves. Remove casualties from front row as normal.

    Then, role the 4+ impact hits from X2, X6, X7, X8, and X9. If any score 4+, role to wound, remove casualties from skeletons only. The Dwarf player cannot allocate attacks at all, since the special whirlwind attack already allocates the attacks in the rule.

    Then, if the doomseeker killed less than 9 skeletons, the remaining skeletons of X3, X4, X7, X8, and X9 get their attacks, since fighting with spears in two ranks. I would remove skeleton casualties in numerical order, to preserve attacks... X1, X2, X3, etc...

    That sound right?
    Jack of all trades, master of none.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Teron's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Brother Zebadiah@Jun 10 2004, 17:18
    Exactly. The rule should be stated so as to eliminate any room for interpretation. This is how I see the rule after reading all of this...

    20 man regiment of skeletons with a vampire count + innocence lost (always strikes first or on initiative if opponent strikes first too)

    Skeletons get the charge.

    X-skeleton, Y-vampire, Z-doomseeker dwarf

    Z is line up across from X4.
    _________Z
    X1 X2 X3 X4 Y1
    X5 X6 X7 X8 X9
    Xa Xb Xc Xd Xe
    Xf Xg Xh Xi Xj

    We enter close combat...

    Since the wording of innocence lost specifically says that they go on initiative order, the vampire strikes first with initiative of 9.
    Then, if the doomseeker is still alive, he automatically hits X3, X4, and Y1. Role to wound these models, roling the vampire separately. Role any armor saves / ward saves. Remove casualties from front row as normal.

    Then, role the 4+ impact hits from X2, X6, X7, X8, and X9. If any score 4+, role to wound, remove casualties from skeletons only. The Dwarf player cannot allocate attacks at all, since the special whirlwind attack already allocates the attacks in the rule.

    Then, if the doomseeker killed less than 9 skeletons, the remaining skeletons of X3, X4, X7, X8, and X9 get their attacks, since fighting with spears in two ranks. I would remove skeleton casualties in numerical order, to preserve attacks... X1, X2, X3, etc...

    That sound right?
    [snapback]166917[/snapback]

    In that case, it's this way:

    X3 and X4 take a hit, Y1 takes a hit.
    X2, X6, X7, X8, X9 are hit on a 4+
    Roll to wound those hit as usual.

    If any Undead in base contact/within spear reach are still standing, they can attack the Seeker with a -1 To Hit penalty.
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