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Just wanted to check how everyone played this. If a fear causing unit with higher unit strength charge some archers and they declare stand and shoot. Do they stand and shoot before taking fear test or after?
I've seen this played both ways so just checking if anyone could give a definative one way answer.
You must pass your fear test first, the rule is clearly laid out on page 50.
This is what alot of people have been saying but:
In the stand and shoot section
"The shooting is worked out just before moving chargers, during the move chargers part of the movement phase..." BRB page 19
In the move chargers section
"Remember to resolve any stand & shoot reaction that has been declared against the chargers at this stage, before measuring if the chargers have made it into contact with the intended target" BRB page 20
In the fear section regarding fear causing enemy charging
"First declare the unit's intended charge reaction, then test as soon as the fear-causing unit is determined to be within charge range." BRB page 50
So using these rules the order would seem to be:
1. Declare stand and shoot reaction
2. Stand and Shoot before measuring distance from chargers to unit
3. Measure distance to target from chargers.
4. If fear casuing chargers are in range take test, pass or flee.
That twist of logic creates the impossible situation of a unit executing two different reactions against the same charge! Either you Stand & Shoot, or Flee, you can't do both! A charge only has one charge reaction. The condition that forces you to determine if you flee has to be resolved before your reaction can be finalized to Stand & Shoot, or the whole system just fell apart. There isn't a Shoot & Flee charge reaction, as awesome as that would be.
Our gaming group plays it this way, which has already been pointed out. If you fail a fear test, you don't get to stand and shoot because you're forced to change your reaction to flee, per page 50. The other sequential bit is a needless conundrum.
But the fear test being taken AFTER the fear causing unit is determined to be in range isn't needless. It's a very important sequence preventing fear-causing units from inflicting excess leadership tests by charging units out of range. And the BRB clearly says that SaS comes *before* measuring the charge range.
The order of the events IS:
Declare Stand and Shoot
Resolve Stand and Shoot
Measure charge range
Make Fear test if chargers are within range
Flee if failed
Whether any fear-causing armies' players (hell, I play TK) like it or not, that's how it works. The only part of the reaction that the chargee is forced to change is the "stand" part.
This has been dealt with in the main errata document. Here is the relevant answer:
"In the Declare Charges part of the Movement phase, first declare all normal charges and charge reactions. Once this is done, measure the ranges to see if Frenzied units must declare a charge and to see if Fear and Terror-causing units are in range of their targets, as these psychology rules may affect the declared charges and charge reactions. Once all the charges and charge reactions have been determined, proceed with the Movement phase's normal sequence."
So you have to measure before the stand and shoot can be accomplished.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
I think that answers the question rather succintly. Well done sir kently!
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon