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Yes, the banner affects the unit
No, the banner has no affect
Here is the question:
Two enemy units meet up in combat. Unit A has the army general. Unit B has the other army's battle standard bearer. The BSB is carrying a magic banner that effects any combat that he is a part of.
The general in Unit A challenges the BSB in Unit B. The BSB refuses the challenge and moves to the back of the unit.
Now that the BSB is in the back of the unit does his banner effect that round of combat or not?
I'm not sure a poll is the best resolution to this - the rulebook usually works much better.
Page 73 says: "As long as a character remains in the back ranks he cannot fight [...] or use magic or magic items." The answer is obviously no, he cannot use the banner since it is a magic item.
Thanks for your response.
It is set up as a poll because during the battle my friend (who had the BSB ) and I (with the General who challenged) looked at the page you referenced and interpreted it differently. So I'm looking at how people interpret that rule. I thought at the time and still think that a magic banner carried by a BSB in the back ranks would have no affect. the problem mainly came from the wording of the magic banner. It is a high elf banner that gives +5 CR to any combat the BSB is involved in.
So if anybody would vote Yes, I would love to hear the reasoning as well.
Couple of things. A banner in the back doesn't work as already stated. Also, your general cannot challenge the BSB directly. If you issue a challenge he can meet it with any character or champion in the unit. If he refuses to meet it with anybody, then you can choose who goes to the back rank.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
There was no champion or other character in the unit.
The wording on the magic banner is irrelevant*. The rules state that a character that is not in the front rank cannot use magic items - the banner is a magic item, so it can't be used. (Skaven and Bretonnians are exceptions to this rule, sort of.)
*obviously unless it specifically states that it can be used whilst at the back.
Also, the wording for the description of the magic item would seem relevant to me because magic items are consistently exceptions to the normal rules. Now, it doesn't specifically state that it "works in the bank rank" or whatever, but what it does state can be interpreted to mean as much unless there is a definition for it somewhere else that I'm unaware of...in which case, please enlighten me because I'm obviously not as well versed with the rulebook as you are.
I can honestly see it going either way, though it seems to make more sense that the banner wouldn't work.
For the record, the banner adds D6 to the combat res, not +5.
High Elf WiP Tactica
Another thing, doesn't the challeng rules explicitly state that if a character refuses a challenge then he takes no further part in the combat?
And the above page reference sums it up quite clearly, saying that magic items normally circumvent the rules so this doesn't count is, quite frankly, bollocks. (I know that's not what you said Vase, but the point stands).
So either way you look at it you 2 sources that state the banner has no effect, so the answer is no, it has no effect.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon
The character wont participate for the ensuing close ombat phase. When that has ended, hes returned to the front rank.
Thanks for your replies everybody.
What you have all said is also how I see it. (The banner not working and all) I also could see how my friend thought it would affect the combat so I just wanted to get other people's opinions and interpretations (even if some seemed a little condescending )
Plus in the end I stomped him anyway (sorry dude) haha.