Helm of commandment - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Helm of commandment

    My mate played with Aarchaon against a VC army. His unit consisted of 9 knights of chaos with the mark of nurgle. Unfortunately his opponent plays in far too many tournaments and proceeded to tie up Archie's (Aarchaon) unit for five turns with a massive zombie unit, nearby his general used the helm of commandment to make the zombie's WS7 so they turned into ninja zombies.
    Would the mark of nurgle make tham WS 6 so hitting the knights on 4's (i think the knights are WS6 basic) and then a further -1 to hit from archies special rule so the zombies were hitting on 5's regardless of their new fond ability. A heated debate erupted that the modifiers didn't work because of the helm and my friend then knew life was far to short so he conceeded and went for a beer.
    So was my mate right that the zombies still hit the knights on 5's irrespective on the silly item.

    Diggidity

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    Lord Admiral kithre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's quagmire View Post
    My mate played with Aarchaon against a VC army. His unit consisted of 9 knights of chaos with the mark of nurgle. Unfortunately his opponent plays in far too many tournaments and proceeded to tie up Archie's (Aarchaon) unit for five turns with a massive zombie unit, nearby his general used the helm of commandment to make the zombie's WS7 so they turned into ninja zombies.
    Would the mark of nurgle make tham WS 6 so hitting the knights on 4's (i think the knights are WS6 basic) and then a further -1 to hit from archies special rule so the zombies were hitting on 5's regardless of their new fond ability. A heated debate erupted that the modifiers didn't work because of the helm and my friend then knew life was far to short so he conceeded and went for a beer.
    So was my mate right that the zombies still hit the knights on 5's irrespective on the silly item.

    Diggidity

    hahahah my penguin army grows
    I believe that the correct way to play the helm is up them to the Vampire's ws, which is 7 in this case, and then roll to hit, modifying rolls by the modifiers e.g. cloud of flies etc.

    So in fact the Zombies would be hitting on 4s - they would hit WS6 knights on 3s, and then suffer a -1 to hit. The way that you play (effectively lowerin the WS) is not the correct way to play this as there may be bonuses and penalties that are double-counted or not applied...

    So:
    1) determine natural roll to hit
    2) determine modifiers to this
    3) roll the dice and seek any dice that beat the MODIFIED score...

  4. #3
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    The only items that are going to have an effect on the Mark of Nurgle are items that add a modifier to hit (thus cancelling it out).

    Since the helm doesn't, it still gets trumped by the MoN. And any tournament player should know that...


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    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
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    I don't have the WoC book handy, but the crown just makes the unit WS7. All other modifiers apply as normal. Same as if you were fighting something that normally has WS7. So if the knights give them a -1 to WS, then it would drop to 6, and if the mark is -1 to hit, they would be hitting on 5's.

    SirKently
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirkently View Post
    I don't have the WoC book handy, but the crown just makes the unit WS7. All other modifiers apply as normal. Same as if you were fighting something that normally has WS7. So if the knights give them a -1 to WS, then it would drop to 6, and if the mark is -1 to hit, they would be hitting on 5's.

    SirKently

    Ah, didn't read Archaon's special rule - then yes, my logic applies, as the 4+ to hit was with -1 for Nurgle, and teh -1 additional due to Archaons special rule means only hitting on 5s, and in fat hitting on 6s if you are worse than them in WS (4s, 5s because of mark, 6s because of Archaon). On the flip side, the Knights themselves will be hitting on 4s...

  7. #6
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    443 (x8)

    Just to help, Chaos Knights are only WS5.

    So the zombies are WS7, dropped to WS6 from MoN. They will hit knights on 3s. Archaon's ability kicks in with the -1 to hit, so the zombies will in fact be hitting on 4s.

    Both the zombies and the knights will hit each other on 4s.

    Note: Mark of Nurgle only reduces enemy WS by 1, it does not incur a -1 to hit. The only actual -1 to hit applied here is from Archaon's ability.
    Last edited by psichotykwyrm; February 16th, 2009 at 18:38.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
    ---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes

  8. #7
    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    381 (x8)

    The Vampire Counts FAQ & Errata is quite clear on this, the zombies would be WS7. You apply modifiers to their base WS and then the helm overrides it.

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    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    443 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by InquisitorAffe View Post
    The Vampire Counts FAQ & Errata is quite clear on this, the zombies would be WS7. You apply modifiers to their base WS and then the helm overrides it.
    Okay, so the MoN drops the zombie WS, then they get boosted to WS7, which makes the zombies hit on 3s. Archaon's -1 to hit still takes effect, as it is a modifier to hit and not a modifier to WS. The zombies will then hit the knights on 4s.

    The net result in this situation is still the same, with the zombies and knights hitting each other on 4s.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
    ---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes

  10. #9
    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    381 (x8)

    Well sure, -1 to hit is still -1 to hit regardless There just seemed to be some confusion above about the effective WS of the zombies still!

  11. #10
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    443 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by InquisitorAffe View Post
    Well sure, -1 to hit is still -1 to hit regardless There just seemed to be some confusion above about the effective WS of the zombies still!
    Oops, seems like I forgot to phrase some of my last post as a question. Just making sure I had the situation correct, in its entirety.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
    ---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes

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