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Excuse the neverending noobage torrent of questions from me, But:
Bolt throwers do my head in..
I found that they never allow a Look out sir roll..
(BS-based weapon, pg75, left column, paragraf 2)
For the sake of simplicity in my examples, assume that there is always only one character and more than 5 RnF in the unit.
Characters that are first (first hit rank) never get hit, a rank and file gets it instead.
(not a Look out sir, no dice required) that much i get.
However, i can't find any evidence that the bolt hits the File with the most models other than the vague illustration ("in this situation the shot may kill up to 5 models" p.91)
all it does is say that it can hit as many models as the biggest file, without saying it targets a specific file..
The bolt thrower fires at the unit, the character is not in the front rank of his file, but which file is hit?
The one with the character in or the other one?
Can i choose?
Am i just looking at it the wrong way and bolt throwers really just fire rubber spears that zigzag through units and *Always* evade characters as long as there are >5 Rnf ?
and never hit any specific file if there is more than one?
How about a flank shot, that surely must give me an opportunity to kill off that pesky character?
The files are now ranks, and ranks are files, but.. what now?
can i still only ever kill 5 Rnf ?
Surely this bolt will go through the first model as usual, then the character and, depending on kills continue ???
Or am i to understand that a bolt will bend around on itself and stab another model instead???? (randomised hits?)
I'm beginning to think that the more logical of the two warhammer games isn't very logical at all.
Any help is much appreciated, especially if you can dig up a page number that can help me have an enlightened view.
Artillery of all kinds is not meant to be an effective anti-character tool. It is no suprise to me that you cannot kill characters with Bolt Throwers. The chanches of wounding them with any other large weapons are very small.
You should instead be looking to beat them with combat res, magic or your own characters.
The main thing to look at is the fact that bolt throwers don't use templates. That's why you don't get a look out sir roll. It's a war machine that is shot like a standard missle weapon using the BS of the crew.
It works exactly like the book says. The bolt cannot kill the character if there are enough RNF troops. You count the characters position when determining how many ranks can be hit, but it's a regular model that will be removed instead. No specific file is hit, you just count up the deepest one and get to roll up to that many wounds.
Making sense in 'the real world' is not a prerequisite of game rules. Dunno who sold you on the idea what WHFB is 'more logical' than any other game . It is, more detailed in some areas than 40K, which many people equate with 'realism' I suppose. Have you ever considered the difference in what happens in WHFB when heavy cav charge sworsmen as opposed to pikemen? Logical realism it ain't.
Well, to be fair, a cannon doesn't use templates either, but still give a Look out sir!.
(since they don't use normal targeting and BS)
I'm pretty much ready to concede that the Bolt thrower's usefullness are quite a bit under my estimation, grudgingly i'll add that against my normal opponents they lack any real effect other than psychological.
I guess i'll go and join the ranks of hydra owners now *grumble*
WhFb feels way more logical in a lot of respects than 40k.
On the other hand, it's somewhat counterintuitive and convoluted at times.
I think the name of the weapon belies it's usefulness Imho.
Reaper Bolt Thrower..
I mean, it's named after death and a Heavy metal band has risen after it's inception bearing its name.
Its a heavy metal death machine!!.. that fires nerf-rockets....
Last edited by arachnid; April 27th, 2009 at 20:32.
Don't think of it as the bolt bending around the character, but as the character, being more agile than your average trooper, dodging out of the way.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
no a RBT is not a character assasination device. It is meant to remove rank bonuses from unit before they get into combat. They are quite capable of destroying flyers or fast cavalry that are threatening them. In their single shot mode in a flank shot they are capable of destroying whole flanks of big bad knights.
You have to imagine the abstract of not what the character does in the unit to avoid the bolt, but instead what the crew are actually shooting at.
I'd imagine in a true battle, the ballista crew aren't saying to each other 'Okay, second guy from the left, and also his buddy directly behind him.'
They're probably saying more of 'Shoot at that infantry formation there!'
So a bolt is fired and just spears through the unit and kills two or three guys as it does before running out of momentum and hitting the ground, or getting stuck in a dude. The rules on penetrating ranks is just an easy justifier for this way of abstract thinking.
Just because they can't kill characters in units doesn't mean they are useless. They are great for thinning ranks, as you get 6 shots and strength 4 with armour piercing, that is great for killing infantry since most infantry get no save from that, and heavy infantry only get a 6+ to save. The single shot is more for taking out monsters than anything else, with it's higher strength and multiple wounds it can cause it can make a monster start hurting pretty bad, 1 bolt probably won't kill one, but he will be hurting after it.
Unlike a cannon, your bolt thrower won't blow itself up, sure it can't take out a chariot in a single shot, or possibly kill a character in a ranked up unit, but it also won't blow itself up, or make you miss next turns shooting phase to, leaving you to pay 100 some odd points being useless for half the game.