Pit of shades vs. units w&w/o an initiative - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member oceanwolf's Avatar
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    Pit of shades vs. units w&w/o an initiative

    The way I have had people playing Pit of shades against me is that if something like a chariot where the chariot has no initiative is targeted it will automatically be killed even if the riders and steeds have an initiative. Is this true? Also who would get to use their initiative, a hippogryph or my lord?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
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    For the chariot, use the horses initiative. First though, he will require a 4+ to affect the model, as it isn't completely covered by the template. Then the model will test on the horses initiative, which follows from reading the chariot model description on page 62 of the BRB. It says "some characteristics are not included in the profile as they are never used." As the chariot has a - for initiative, you will never use that for a test or anything else. Therefore you would have to use the horses initiative. I used the horses because of the reason stated below for hippogryphs.

    For the hippogryph, it answer is more problematic. I can't see anything that says what characteristic a multipart model uses to make a test. The only precedent I can find is the nurgle spell which has the unit make a toughness test. This defaults to the lowest. I would say you would have to use the hippogryph's initiative, unless someone else can point us in a different direction.

    SirKently
    Last edited by sirkently; July 4th, 2009 at 13:22.
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

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    Senior Member BustaCaps's Avatar
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    Well pit of shades on a mounted monster, you would roll to randomize first, just like normal shooting, then that model would take the I test. So for instance i place it on a guy riding a dragon, I then roll a die, 1-4 hits the dragon, 5-6 hits the rider, I roll a 3 and hit the dragon, the dragon then takes the test.

    Although for a chariot, I'm not completely sure who would take it, a part of me thinks you would use the highest I for the test, but I'm not completely sure on it.

  5. #4
    Senior Member oceanwolf's Avatar
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    So page 62 takes precedence over page 5 of the BRB? On page 5 it says that if a model has to make a characteristics test on something with a value of 0, you will automatically fail! I need to know that as long as something has an initiative on that model, I can still use it (page 7 in the chariot section may also be used against me but I am not too sure on that one).

    BustaCaps PoS does not work like that. It says that if you fail the initiative test, the whole model goes with it so you wouldn't randomize.

    I would like to know who would take that initiative test with regards to rider or mount, because if sirkently doesn't know, then we are all doomed!

    Thanks for the help so far guys.
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  6. #5
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
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    494 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanwolf View Post
    So page 62 takes precedence over page 5 of the BRB? On page 5 it says that if a model has to make a characteristics test on something with a value of 0, you will automatically fail! I need to know that as long as something has an initiative on that model, I can still use it (page 7 in the chariot section may also be used against me but I am not too sure on that one).
    It isn't that page 62 takes precedence over page 5, its that page 5 doesn't apply. The chariot doesn't have a "0" for initiative, it has a "-". There is a difference. If a model does have a 0 then pit of shades would work and the model would fail automatically, but I can't think of anything that has a 0.

    SirKently
    Last edited by sirkently; July 5th, 2009 at 00:09.
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

  7. #6
    Senior Member oceanwolf's Avatar
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    Nothing has a 0 for initiative. The only 0 you will find is on some units BS and on the dwarf gyrocopters movement. Because of this I think the '-' stands for a 0, but if we play RAW then that would never happen. Good for me I guess
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  8. #7
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
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    A "-" would never stand for zero. Otherwise things with a 0 for BS would have a dash. If it has a dash, you can never use that statistic for anything.

    SirKently
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

  9. #8
    Senior Member oceanwolf's Avatar
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    Well then that rule seems a little redundant.
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  10. #9
    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    This one is in the FAQ

    When a model with multiple values has to take a characteristic test, you use the 'best.' (Most likely to succeed.)

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    Senior Member oceanwolf's Avatar
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    Wow, I spend how long looking in the BRB and there it was all along in the FAQ! Thanks a lot everyone for your help.
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