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Ok, my group is going back and forth on this. Some spells say "requires Line of sight" or "requires Visible" and others say "no Line of sight required." If it says neither then what is the default. Obviously, Magic Missles has a nice section that clears it up for them, but everything else?
Hate to ask but, can anyone quote me the spot they find the rules they use for these answers. My group doesn't consider this forum as "offical" so I need something offical to show them.
There is nowhere that really clarifies this LoS issue definatively so I can't give you a reference page from the rule book. The only thing the magic section says about line of sight is in regards to magic missles. It says that thay need line of sight the same way as regular shooting. Since there is no mention of line of sight for any non magic missile, putting a line of sight restriction on spells as much sense as saying you can only cast spells at models painted red. If it is not in the rules, it is not a rule cause it "makes sense". Some non magic missiles as you say have things in their description that include things like "requires line of sight", these are exceptions to the general case, and must be treated as such. If a spell descrioption doesn't say anything about line of sight, it means you don't need to worry about it. This also means that a wizard engaged in close combat can cast spells that do not require line of sight out of combat, assuming the target unit is a valid target for the spell.
It is really hard to prove a negative. There is no default for line of sight questions. Spells that require line of sight are clearly defined. Everything else follows the rules written in the spell. If it doesn't say anything about line of sight, you can deduce that it isn't required.
Hope that clears it up,
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
Yeah, the problewm is that some spells say, "No line of sight required," so the group is going, well there is nothing that says spell require line of sight to start with, but WHY would they put that in if did not. It's making a messy debate so I am hoping someone has something to add that we have not already been through to clear it up.
In the last 3 games we have done it 3 differant ways... It's getting really frustrating.
If line of sight was required by default, it would say something about it in the rules entry for magic. As it does not, it is not a rule. Spell descriptions that include "no line of sight required" are probably there because the rule writers and the army book writers aren't nessisarily the same people and wording problem get in the way.
If you want to compare the rules for shooting to the rules of magic, you will notice that there is a whole entry in shooting about line of sight. And then there is no mention of line of sight in the magic section (except for magic missiles).
Logically, "line of sight required" is a restriction on casting, whereas "does not require line of sight" is not a restriction. In order for a restriction to apply to something, there must be a rule about it. Such restrictions only appear spell descriptions and not in the general magic entry. Thus the restriction only exists for spells that specifically say it.
My local group is having a pretty strong argument about this very topic. As per what is written I tend to believe that unless it is a magic missile or otherwise limits the way the spell can be cast in its spell description that it would in fact be castable with or without LOS. Some of the guys in the store are using specific non-magic missile spell descriptions which state that they require LOS as evidence that all spells fall into the this rule.
I realize that no one out here has a concrete answer one way or another, and I have yet to see an official response from GW that would clarify, but I wonder what most of you guys out there are using as a default at your local stores.