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As part of an ongoing Mighty Empires campaign, I played a battle against a dwarf opponent yesterday, and we got into an argument that wasn't entirely settled down and that eventually led to a very one-sided match.
He had a BIG piece of terrain, a pretty good modeled "mine and mountain" of about 10" X 9.5". At first, his argument that it was an "impassable terrain" and that he could actually deploy his warmachines in there, and that it was inaccessible for my army if I didn't have any flyers. Of course that I was opposed ! However, he claimed that it was a "hole in the rules" since the BRB didn't explicitly said that you cannot deploy a unit in a piece of impassable terrain.
We got into a very heated argument and the Gamemaster of our campaign was involved. At the end, I showed them that they were both wrong and he grudgingly accepted my claim. However, he said that given the case, he will play it as a mountain with only ONE side accessible, via a ramp.
He said that the piece of terrain was FULLY inaccessible from three sides, and that in the fourth side, he'll place a ramp. At the end, he had something like this:The X's were the "top" terrain of the hill, where he deployed ALL his army, and the R's represent the small ramp on one side. The dots (.s) were also inaccessible according to his "rules". That meant that the whole hill was only climbable from a VERY small section of it (about 5").Code:..RRRR. XXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXX
On top of all this, he chose this piece of terrain as HIS "special" choice (because he was defending the territory) and chose to deploy it in his edge of the table, about ONE INCH from the border of the map, with the ramp facing OUT of the table ! That meant that the only possible way of climbing to the top was to go AROUND the mountain, in a "line" of models (because of the little room between the border and the hill), and try to climb it from the back ! Needless to say, he decimated my 1750 points army with his 1000 point army, consisting of TWO bolt throwers, one cannon and 20 thunderers, all crammed up in the hill. He got away with a VERY doubtful DRAW, which allowed him conserve his territory.
Normally, I wouldn't complain about a loss like this; hell, I know the dwarf armies are "gunlines" and they love to castle on a hill like there's no tomorrow, but in those cases the hill is actually protected by a tough infantry unit on the front, not by something like this !
The simple question: Is the piece of terrain I mentioned "legal" to play under NORMAL circumstances ? Was he cheating ? Is this a "valid" form of play ?
Let me tell you, I'll really have my doubts about Warhammer if someone says that this type of terrain is completely legal. Still, I'd like to hear your valuable opinions.
Thanks in advance for your comments !
The rules don't explicitly state you can't pretend all your stuff is Strength/Toughness 10 with ten attacks each, either. I believe the general rule is that if the BRB doesn't explicitly state something is so, then it isn't. Now, if you both agreed to something like that, then sure, but if they can't point to an explicit rule in the book that says "Yes, you can do this", then they can't do it.
Personally, I would've slapped him.
The person running the campaign should have been involved in rules alterations and special circumstances such as that, as a result of that if nothing else, it would be illegal.
Even if it isn't illegal he's still taking the piss pretty badly. I wouldn't even play him if he was going to be an arse like that.
Fantasy: Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Beastmen and Tomb Kings.
LotR: Misty Mountains and Rohan
Interesting battle x_x
Were you playing your 6 year old nephew?
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
I would not play him again, where is the fun in that?
The issue is not wether or not it is legal RAW.
I have been a RPG game-master for twelve years, and a fencing a CCG referee for quite a few too. The issue is clearly sportsmanship. As a campaign arbiter, I think I would have had him remove his piece of terrain, and given him a warning not to try to do anything similar ever. As a player, I would have refused to play the game, and threatened to quit the campaign if your arbiter hadn't taken any measure.
Your opponent clearly has a problem with notion of what a "game" is.
Honestly, I could expend for lines here but it seems so pretty obvious why is this behaviour so far-away from anything even decent that I won't.
I have never, ever seen such a bad attitude under any circumstances, and trust me CCG players in competitions are mostly a bunch of sour players.
I feel sorry for you.
Of course, since it was a nicely modeled piece of terrain and in defence of an important province, he might really have wanted to use it and I am sure there would be a way for that to happen. However, since it provided such a dis-advantage to you something should have went to balance it other than the points difference. This was also something whose potential for game-wrecking could be seen from the start. sadly he seemed to want to use it not to lend unusual flavor to this game, but to slaughter you easily....but, maybe he really thought that with your lead on the points this evened things up....how experienced is he with the game and what can work and what won't? Same with the game master. He also might not have seen how broken this was. A few ways to even things up,
1. Besides an even bigger points lead, perhaps you could have had some special fliers, like balloons that could drop units onto the mountain.
2. A heavy fog has descended, limiting all shooting. It could vary turn by turn at random as the winds shift. d20 inches of visibility....this would also affect declared charges.
3. Your Characters(or certain units known only to you[make a note]) each have some kind of explosive device. When placed they detonate up to a certain random range, causing x amount of hits at Str. whatever the hell is fair vs. dumb dwarfs on superhighmountain of majesty.
4. Have something in your deplyment zone like a signal fire, warp-gate, messenger relay...that allows for endless reinforcements which appear in a ceratian amount of points every turn. Turns themselves, can be unlimited.
...or combine these ideas.
My point is not to defend this guy, but when players want to bring something special into the game, see if there could be a way. It can make for unusual and exciting games, outside the norm. You know these guys and so can see if they were just ignorant, or really bending the rules until they shattered. Sadly though, some people do forget that having fun is not just about you.
Last edited by Palos; March 21st, 2010 at 15:36.
I'm all for cool bits of terrain but this guy seems to have taken things too far. I personally wouldn't have played the game with him/her and would avoid even attempting to start one in the future.
Also the word IMPASSABLE isn't just a fancy collection of letters, ask him how the crew of his warmachines got their cannon/bolt thrower/flamecannon on to it before the game starts. They don't just magically appear there...
I asked this very same question in a couple of forums and they all seem to agree in something... Smacking the opponent (literally) would have been a very viable option !
I'm referring this thread to our GM. Hopefully, he'll take actions.
Thank you all for your helpful answers. This forum rocks !