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My friends and I are planning to play a large WHFB game on friday (3000-5000 points) and have been toying with the idea of a Siege. We don't have the chance to get together and play that often so I would perfer not to waste the game by having one side be rediculously unblanaced and ruining the game.
So does anyone have expierence with playing these sorts of games? I was thinking of giving the defenders less points to use then the attackers but I don't want to overdo it and make it impossible for the defenders.
I was also thinking about making house rules for the game to balance things as well. Any links, comments, advice, etc. would be VERY appreciated!
(ps. I wasint really sure where to post this so sorry if it's in the wrong spot)
"Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"
My experience with big games is that people try and do weird stuff, I know that my friends do either with army selection or through the scenario.
Couple of things I have found helps
-Make it objective based, I know that seems weird but it makes working out winning much easier and there is less room for confusion take and hold the objectives as long as possible.
-Discuss general ground rules for list maximum magic, special characters, the chances are these armies haven't blundered into each other and so they probably know a bit about what to expect.
-Don't try and be too tricky as you say really big games don't come around very often and you don't want it to be ridiculously unbalanced.
It is really easy for a game like this to get unbalanced, imagine 5000 pts of High Elves with Tyrion, Teclis and 2 Star Dragons, It just wouldn't be that fun to play against, you could even try minimum percentages of core etc. I have had a couple of games this size, one was really good (Battle Report here) and another was great for me (report here) but my magical dominance and his 2 dragons meant it was extremely one-sided. The third one was a repeat of the first game trying a seige with different lists, my army mostly started off the board and it was a big board, The dwarves and my mages and warmachines pretty much took the enemy apart before combat was even reached so that game sucked.
That doesn't really answer your question about seiges but I hope it helped anyway.
Have to agree with everything about Allonaire's post. However, not to be outdone, here's a 6k vs. 9k megabattle report that I posted some time ago
Oh, and you might like this. It's the official rules for a siege, from 6th edition. Prepare for a lot of reading.Army size: The assaulting force should have 2x the amount of points that the defenders have. The book suggests 3000 vs 1500.
Castle size: 1500pts of troops should fit in a standard castle, with 4 towers and 4 walls, arranged in square. One wall should include a gate.
For every additional 500pts of defenders, add 1 wall and 1 tower to your castle.
Wall sections are assumed to be 12" long and 2" wide. If a wall is too long, it should be divided into smaller sections of approximately 12".
A single warmachine and it's crew should be able to man the top of the tower. Warmachines may only occupy the top levels of a tower, and only a single warmachine may be placed at the top.
Gates are flanked by 2 towers. They require 2 models to open them from the inside, and this can be done in their own movement phase with no penalties to their movement. Gates cannot be opened from the outside, even by friendly models. Gates are assumed to close automatically at the end of the movement phase. A single unit of any size can move through the gate during a movement phase- if the unit is too large or has insufficient move to clear the gate entirely, the gate will close as normal. Both parts of the unit must remain in contact with the gate, and the unit can finish moving through in the next phase.
Courtyard- the table within the walls. All normal movement rules apply.
Unit size- there is no minimum unit size for models defending the castle. Any unit atop the walls or towers may assume a skirmish formation, with a minimal distance of 2". The regular -1 penalty does not apply when shooting at skirmishers who are manning the walls.
Moving along walls- there is only room enough for a single rank of troops atop the walls. Units may move past eachother so long as they have sufficient movement to end the phase in a single rank.
Moving onto walls and towers- when a unit touches base of a wall or tower, they may automatically be placed anywhere atop it (or on any level of a tower). Each model must be able to reach the base of the wall or tower to move in. If there is insufficient movement, or insufficient space atop the wall, the remainder of the unit will have to stay in the courtyard, touching the wall, and counting as part of the unit.
Moving from the walls/towers into the courtyard- a unit may move down from the walls and assume any formation they chose within the courtyard, so long as the unit remains in contact with the wall. Moving down from walls/towers costs half the unit's movement.
Assaulting Walls- besiegers attack walls as though they were units. They charge as normal, seeking to come into base contact with the wall. Models armed with ladders or hooks can assault the troops on top, otherwise, blows are struck against the wall itself.
Defenders may declare Stand-and-Shoot reactions with oil and rocks as long as the attackers are not in a Siege Tower. They may always choose to Stand-and-Shoot with their normal missile weapons, as well as Hold or Flee.
Defenders in Skirmish formation may also elect as special "man the walls" reaction, and move all models up to 2" to bring them into combat.
Assaulting troops on the walls-
if the unit is carrying ladders, 1 model (from anywhere in the unit) per ladder may be placed into combat with the defenders on the wall.
If the unit is equipped with grappling hooks, each model in contact with the wall may be placed into combat.
Defenders are assumed to have ASF and be behind a defended obstacle (attackers only hit on a natural 6)
Siege Towers- if the tower is in contact with the wall, any 2 models from the unit may be placed onto the walls in combat. Assaults between the models in a tower, and the models on the walls, are fought as usual, with no bonuses for defended obstacles etc.
Once the attacker has won a round of combat against the defenders, he is assumed to have taken the wall and can now move his entire unit onto the wall (space permitting) to fight any defenders they wish, and fighting in combat without penalties.
If the ramparts are undefended, the attacker may automatically place his unit atop the wall.
Break tests- all models defending a wall are assumed to be stubborn. Ranks and Banners never count towards combat resolution. Only casualties are used to determine who has won or lost combat.
Assaulting regiments who are broken and flee will run directly away from the wall. Defenders cannot pursue them. When fighting atop walls (after the attacker has siezed them), fleeing and prusuit are worked out as normal. Fleeing attackers still retreat over the wall and directly away, and cannot be pursued.
Damaging the Castle
attacks against the walls and towers are assumed to hit automatically, although a model may only ever make a single attack against a castle during the CC phase (regardless of number of attacks). When firing missile weapons against the gate, it is hit only on a 5-6. In close combat, attacks may be allocated against the gate directly.
Castles are not affected by spells.
Stone-throwers and other indirect-fire warmachines will hit the castle only if the center of the template is touching the castle. Otherwise, the castle is only hit on a 4+.
For every hit against a part of the castle, roll a D6 and add the strength of the attack before consulting the chart below:
2-12: no effect
13-14: shaken, add +1 to rolls on this chart
15-16: severely shaken, troops on this section may not shoot during their turn on a roll of 4+, roll separately for each unit. Add +1 to rolls on this chart.
17-18: Rampart destroyed. Any model atop the wall or tower suffer D6 S4 hits. Furthermore, they are no longer in Hard Cover, and only recieve the benefit of Soft Cover and defended obstacle. Should this result be rolled again, they will lose these benefits as well. Add +1 to further rolls. If this result is rolled a third time, it counts as a Shaken result instead.
19 (wall): Breach! A hole is torn in the wall. Add +1 to any further rolls on this chart. If you roll this result again, it counts as a Shaken result instead.
19 (tower): Partial Collapse! any troops in the tower must pass an Initiative test or suffer an S5 hit. Add +1 to any further rolls on this chart. If this effect is rolled again, it counts as a Shaken result instead.
20+ : Collapse! The wall is utterly destroyed. Troops atop will take a single S5 hit. All models within 4” take an S3 hit. The rubble counts as hard cover and a defended obstacle. A Tower will collapse on a roll of 4+. Otherwise, it will only be a partial collapse, with the additional that all models within 4” will suffer a S3 hit.
2-10: no affect
11-12: crack, add +1 to rolls on this chart
13-14: crunch, add +2 to rolls on this chart
15: gate broken. The gate is open, but counts as difficult terrain. The gate may still be attacked. Add +3 to rolls on this chart.
16: crush! the gate is utterly destroyed, and the entrance to the fortress is wide open.
Reinforced Gate: 20pts
add -1 to all rolls on the Gate damage table
Boiling Oil: 25pts
each infantry unit may buy a cauldron with enough oil to last the entire battle. The cauldron may be moved at half the speed of the regiment using it. If the unit flees, the cauldron is destroyed.
The cauldron is a Move-or-Fire weapon, may be used to Stand-and-Shoot, but requires 2 unengaged models from the unit to use, and the unit may make no other shooting attacks.
3” round template, all models even partially covered take a S5 hit automatically, with no armor saves allowed.
Rocks: 1pt/model (must upgrade whole unit)
rocks may target any unit in contact with the wall. They roll to hit using the model’s BS. The rock is S4, armor piercing.
Equipment, Sieging Force
log ram: 10pts
4 models are required to carry a log ram, and each unit may only carry one. If the unit flees, or drops below 4models, the ram is left in place and another regiment may pick it up for use.
In combat against walls or gates, the ram is considered to have a strength equal to the number of models carrying it.
Units with Stupidity are too dumb to carry log rams.
Battering Ram: 50pts (a wheeled cart, roughly chariot sized)
counts as a Log Ram, with the exception that the unit carrying it moves a -1 speed and it requires 6 models to carry.
The ram provides a 4+ special save against Boiling Oil, and on a 1-2, any shooting attack will hit the Ram rather than the unit pushing it.
The ram has a profile of:
S6-8 / T7 / W5
A unit may carry any number of ladders. If less than 5 models carry a ladder, the unit moves at half speed. Atleast 2 models must carry a ladder, or it is abandoned. Skirmishers and models subject to Stupidity may not carry ladders at all. Ladders are abandoned if the unit flees.
Grappling Hooks: 1pt/model (must upgrade whole unit, skirmishers only)
Mantlets: 1pt/model (must upgrade whole model, may only be used by models armed with missile weapons)
The unit may not move-and-shoot, or march. Troops may not abandon mantlets voluntarily, although if they flee, the mantlets are destroyed.
Troops protected by mantlets are in Hard Cover (-2 to hit) and may be deployed 2D6” closer to the castle.
Siege Tower: 100pts (1 per 1k points)
A unit 10models may be equipped with a siege tower. Up to 8 models may be placed in the tower, but do not count towards the number of models pushing it. Siege Towers get a free 2D6” move before the battle begins.
Siege Towers may not march, and move at the speed of the unit pushing it. If fewer than 10models are pushing the tower, the tower moves at -1 speed for each casualty. If the unit drops below 6 models, the tower must be abandoned.
Models attacking a tower hit automatically.
The tower may be singled out by shooting attacks and counts as a large target. Randomise the hits so that 1-2 hit the models on board, and 3-6 hit the tower. If the tower is ever destroyed, any embarked models must pass an Initiative test or suffer an S5 hit.
Units pushing a siege tower may NEVER pursue. Even if they are frenzied.
deployment- no sieging models may be placed within 24” of the castle
defenders get the first turn
if either side is wiped out, the opponent wins by default. The area within the fortress should be divided into 4 zones. To control a zone, a player must have 5 models within the zone. The player controlling the most zones wins.
Yup thats perfect, thanks for the help now its just a matter of reading the whole thing!
"Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"