Who can shoot? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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Thread: Who can shoot?

  1. #1
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    Nov 2004
    Wayward, Texas
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    Who can shoot?

    I'm curious what you folks think.

    From a local board:
    an intereresting question came up today:

    An enemy unit was on a hill in front of a ranked unit with missle weapons.

    The question then becomes how many of the missle troops (5 ranks of 5 figures) can shoot?

    Relevent sections: Hills: states that units on hills are placed to have better lines and referes you to tlos section PG 10

    TLOS says to get down at the model's view determine who can view.

    Shooting section says to determine who has line of sight to the target and refers you to page 10

    in shooting in 2 lines, it says that the first and second ranks draw their line of sight as if they were both the front rank. Is also states that all others ranks are assumed to be blocked and normally cant shoot.

    So the question is: how many can shoot at the hill?

    is it 10 being limited to the front 2 ranks?
    is it 25 due to the target unit being on a hill allowing for the rear ranks to draw a line of sight?

    What do you think? How would you play it? With a difference of 15 shots, or 30 with multishot it could be a huge difference.
    The rules say anyone with a target in its front arc and with line of sight can shoot. PG39

    The rules do not say that only 2 ranks can shoot, just that in normal situations the second rank can use the front ranks line of sight to determine who can shoot.

    It does not limit what normal situations are.

    I believe normal to be two units on the same level, with no other special rules to be involved. counter arguments?
    The rules do not define normal. They do state that normally only 2 ranks can fire. They also state a rule where more can fire. You may wish there was a definition of normal but the rules do not define the exception you wish. Rules just don't work that way. They don't imagine all exceptions people may think of and rule on them. Rather they state what is allowed and if you can't find a rule to allow it then you can't do it.
    PG 39 says that only two criteria is required to shoot

    forward arc and True line of sight

    I agree the large target and hill rules did not carry over from 7th. There was no need as they were replaced with true line of sight. if your model can see the other model, that is all that is needed now. If you can see me behind the hill, you can shoot me.
    I'm with Ron. All we have is that "normal" is the norm, unless abnormal is spelled out. The only abnormal condition I can think of is volley fire.

    One person might choose to define normal as on the same level, but someone else might define it another way. That's way too subjective.

    When it comes down to it, the rule book is clear.

    "In simple terms, this allows units to fire in two ranks.

    Models further back than the second rank of a unit are assumed to have their line of sight blocked by models further forward, and so will not normally be able to shoot."

    The second rank is using the LOS of the first rank. Everyone else can't see. The only stated exception is volley fire.

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  3. #2
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    Mar 2007
    Panama City Beach, Florida
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    Two ranks get to fire, normally. Rules like Volley Fire would be the 'abnormal'.

    I think its quite a stretch to use subjective definitions to alter the context of the rules. It seems clear to me that 'normally' refers to the absence of special rules and such.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
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  4. #3
    i am da Wahhchief Digger's Avatar
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    utrecht, Holland
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    I agree with psichotykwyrm.
    The rule on hills seem quite straightforward when it comes to this. the intend is just drooling out of it, saying: The hill works just like normal shooting, with an advantage that you might sometimes see better, because your standing on higher terrain than others are.

    Rank 1 has line of sight. Rank 2 has also line of sight because they share the LoS with rank 1. rank 3+ can only shoot if they have volley rule.
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