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Hi all! I am new to WHFB, and am in the process of making a Tzeentch Cult Chaos army. As I see it, with the Everchosen riding upon the Empire, the Lord of Schemes might see an opportunity to try and gain supremacy over the other Chaos Gods while they are busy following that war front. So I am considering mixing some of the different Chaos army troops into one large 3000+ pt army and starting a campaign at my FLGS, which is not affiliated with GW. I would really love some helpful feedback about this, and how people would feel about helping me with stats for some non-standard (the players at my FLGS aren't sticklers for rules) units, such as a 12 man horse archer unit from a Kurgen tribe that worships Tzeentch. I'd also like to add in a few Norse units made up of worshipers of Tzeentch that have yet to catch his eye and thus aren't yet even Marauders (using the stats found in the un-official Norse Army Book on the web). I have received some help from people over at TMP's Forum, but it was suggested I ask here as I was going to use the unit stats for the old Kisliev Horse Archers, but no one at TMP could find them easily, and I have no idea which edition they appeared in, just that they used to exist.
Thanks in advance for any help or ideas. I will post my ideas in the Fluff thread once I have all my notes better organized.
Ye olde Kislev Horse Archers 12 pts
M WS BS S T W I A L
8 4 3 3 3 1 3 1 7
Hand Weapon, Short Bow, warhorse
Standard or musician are each 12 pts
Unit champions were different back then, purchased like heroes are now
Last edited by Digger; June 8th, 2011 at 00:38.
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
Dia dhuit, and welcome to the forums.
At any rate, your idea for a campaign sounds pretty good, although a 3000+ army isn't exactly large. You're probably better off hunting down some other gamers who are also on the side of Chaos, and maybe even trying to read up on the backstory for the 'Storm of Chaos'. It was a world-wide campaign some time ago, the last of the large ones, where the Everchosen actually did march on the world. 'Archaon's Horde' provides a set of rules for the army that marched southwards with the campaign.
The Kislevite archers are pretty stock standard, and probably not quite what you're looking for. They are in the General's Compendium, the last edition they printed. You can (if I remember) also find the rules somewhere on GW's site if they weren't dropped in the changeover. You're probably better off going at least semi official, and using the rules for Brettonian Mounted Yeomen.
Really, a man is a man- they typically have M4, WS 2/3, T3, S3, BS3 (for a skilled bowman, 2 for militia etc) and Ld6/7 (for rabble, 7-8 for disciplined troops). A typical horse is M8, barding knocks it to M7. Bows are obvious- 12" range at S3. I wouldn't really worry about giving them any better stats.
Remember though that Marauders aren't favored by the gods until you mark them. Until then, they're just your "typical nord barbarian". Their WS4 comes from their warlike nature and rough and tumble lifestyle. Most humans have "gone soft" according to Northmen, they don't wrestle anymore, they don't hunt and they can't stand up well in the cold. This is why the Marauder is a little bigger, a little better at fighting.
Remember also- Javelins are just like short bows. There's nothing stopping you from modeling bows on your existing MCav and playing them as having Javs.
Hope this helps.
edit: Digger- those stats are 2 editions old. Delete your "hints" and just post the statline. I'm sure nobody will care. Hell, the rules aren't even legal anymore, someone would still have to buy a WoC armybook if they wanted to play up-to-date games.
I love writing campaigns! What you're describing sounds like fun.
Sarathai's suggestions are sound, in addition to having a look at the Storm of Chaos, I've found the General's compendium (also mentioned by Sarathai) to be particularly useful in clarifying my thinking. In particular, there are a number of suggestions for structuring campaigns that don't rely on the current "Mighty Empires" kit.
If you choose to go with a narrative campaign (which sounds like it would work well for this situation), my friends and I have found it helpful to write the entire campaign before we start. Not doing so means the campaign derails when we have to stop and wait for someone to design the next scenario. Even though in the grand scheme of things 3000 points isn't very much, I've found that you can do a lot with far fewer points. The (very old) Warhammer Skirmish and Warbands books provide some food for thought on that front. I've never used the rules for either of those mini games, but I've modified a number of the scenarios for very fun 500-1000 point games.
When designing units and scenarios, I try to think in terms of providing interesting choices for the player. For example, I just designed a goblin fanatic character that provides his leadership to every unit within 12" of a goblin unit before he is revealed. When he releases, he's particularly deadly (for a goblin). While I'm sure that some hardcore tournament goers would find a way to break him, for our play group, the tension between leadership and destruction makes for a difficult choice about how to use him in battle.
When thinking about adding units to an army, think about the choices they provide in addition to the flavor of the unit. A chaos army is traditionally weak on shooting (it is non-existent for Warriors of Chaos?), so when you add shooting to a Chaos army, ask, does this unit require the player to make interesting tactical decisions, or simply shore up a weakness in the Chaos army (by the way, I'm not a fan of Chaos at all, because I find the army list to be boringly full of ridiculously over powered hand to hand troops).
Hope those thoughts help, as you're thinking about campaign building, I'd love some feedback on the one I just completed. It's posted here, along with pictures and battle reports. I find my best wrok is inspired by other thinkers, and you'll surely have an idea or two to improve on it!
Best of luck and keep us posted!
Thanks one and all! Good suggestions. I have already ordered some Mongol Horse Archers to act as the 12 model Kurgen unit, so knowing the stats helps a lot. I also have 1 set of Ungor raiders.
Captain, I agree 3000 isn't large, but I needed to start someplace, and I figured Tzeentch would want to try and keep the three other Chaos Gods in the dark as to his move for as long as possible. With the Everchosen leading a huge army, most Empire forces would be rushing to fight them, so the armies Tzeentch's Cult would encounter would be fairly small compared to his army. As the campaign progresses his army would grow (after all it is very possible that his sorcerers will end up creating more Pink Horrors at the very least) and more Beastmen, Norse and Kurgen flock to his banners (those not committed to either Archaon's Horde or Tzeentch's Cult) as well as current Marauders becoming Warriors, and Warriors becoming Chosen. What will be fun is when the other Chaos Gods finally figure out Tzeentch's scheme - and he can string them along for a while with lies even after they learn of his army ("Oh those worshipers? They are simply acting as a distraction for the main Horde. they are far too small an army to take the Empire themselves..."; however even Khorne will eventually figure it out and then then the Chaos Wars begin... More on that when i post the whole campaign in the Fluff thread (BTW, would you suggest I get the General's Compendium from eBay?)