Stand And shoot with Ironblaster/scrap launcher? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Stand And shoot with Ironblaster/scrap launcher?

    Can an Ironblaster/scrap launcher stand and shoot as a charge reaction? In the codex the ironblaster says it fires like a cannon with the following profile. Since warmachines have the move and fire and slow to fire special rules could the ironblaster stand and shoot?

    I am thinking that it can't. The faq for the warriors of chaos has the hellcannon not being able to stand and shoot and its a monster that fires like a stone thrower. Though looking at our faq (though its before the new codex) doesn't say anything about the scrap launcher not being able to stand and shoot (though I don't know if it said if it couldn't in the old codex).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakkawakka View Post
    Can an Ironblaster/scrap launcher stand and shoot as a charge reaction? In the codex the ironblaster says it fires like a cannon with the following profile. Since warmachines have the move and fire and slow to fire special rules could the ironblaster stand and shoot?

    I am thinking that it can't. The faq for the warriors of chaos has the hellcannon not being able to stand and shoot and its a monster that fires like a stone thrower. Though looking at our faq (though its before the new codex) doesn't say anything about the scrap launcher not being able to stand and shoot (though I don't know if it said if it couldn't in the old codex).
    No it cannot. A warmachine cannot give any other charge reaction than to "hold". If the crew flee as a result of a painc test (for example) the warmachine is destroyed. (Page 109 of the core rulebook).

    This stands unless note otherwise in any faq of codex produced AFTER the latest core rulebook.


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    Sorry. I should of added that the ironblaster/scraplauncher are considered chariots and not war machines. So I do not see them as fallowing the rules for war machines. Thus not following the rules for firing war machines in the RB.

    This is also why I added the hellcannon as an example. It is classified as a monster but fires like a stone thrower.

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    I have checked the rulebook again and the new ogres book.

    You are quite correct - as the troop type is "chariot", the crew are treated as cavalry. Therefore if armed with a missile weapon - it is theoretically allowed to stand and shoot (but only if the distance to the enemy unit is greater than the enemy units basic move value - this simulates the crew having time to reload and aim).

    On that basis (and in the absence of any contradictory special rule or faq) then yes (as a chariot) - it could stand and shoot.

    However, the line that says it "fires like a cannon" therefore means that due to the type of the weapon, the crew would probably not have time to reload and prime the weapon - so therefore NO IT CANNOT STAND AND SHOOT.

    (It can however flee or hold - just like any other chariot)
    Last edited by Fantasticmrfox; October 28th, 2011 at 20:10.


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    This was already discussed in September, found here: http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/fb-rules-help/215028-ogre-kingdoms-ironblaster-charge-reactions-slaughtermasters-armor.html

    My response was as follows:

    The Ironblaster may be a Chariot, but the weapon it is firing does not follow Chariot rules.


    The Cannon of the Sky-Titans states that you should "fire the cannon... in the same way as a normal cannon" using its own profile for Range, Strength, Special, and Grapeshot (Ogres, pg. 51). That means you should use the rules for a normal cannon from the BRB, except where superseded.


    A normal cannon is a War Machine, meaning it follows the restrictions found in the BRB in regard to shooting with it. Specifically, "unless specified otherwise, all war machines weapons have the Move or Fire and Slow to Fire special rules" (BRB, pg. 109). Now, the Cannon does have Move & Fire, meaning it ignores the Move or Fire rule; however, it still has Slow to Fire meaning it cannot Stand and Shoot.

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    The Ironblaster may be a Chariot, but the weapon it is firing does not follow Chariot rules.

    The Cannon of the Sky-Titans states that you should "fire the cannon... in the same way as a normal cannon" using its own profile for Range, Strength, Special, and Grapeshot (Ogres, pg. 51). That means you should use the rules for a normal cannon from the BRB, except where superseded.

    A normal cannon is a War Machine, meaning it follows the restrictions found in the BRB in regard to shooting with it. Specifically, "unless specified otherwise, all war machines weapons have the Move or Fire and Slow to Fire special rules" (BRB, pg. 109). Now, the Cannon does have Move & Fire, meaning it ignores the Move or Fire rule; however, it still has Slow to Fire meaning it cannot Stand and Shoot.

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    What people are missing is that the Iron Blaster is a Chariot which affects its shooting arc. The "fire the cannon in the same way as a normal cannon" is simply a mechanism to resolve hits and wounds. The key is that as a chariot it cannot pivot and it must shoot in it front arc.

    Thus, yes there is nothing that states that and cannot stand and shoot from the front and it should be able to. Its simply a matter of charging from the side or rear which benefits from its large base size.

    To make the Ironblaster's movement and abilities take the negatives of both Chariot and war machine seems to be unfair.

    Additionally, in no way is the cannon slow to fire, it is the war machine mount that it is on that takes time to adjust and aim; for the cannon it is simply spark up and fire then immediately reload just like a regular weapon. As it is not mounted on a war machine this does not affect it and like I said, it can only shoot in it forward arc, thus it should be ready if someone charges the front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpranis View Post
    Thus, yes there is nothing that states that and cannot stand and shoot from the front and it should be able to. Its simply a matter of charging from the side or rear which benefits from its large base size.
    Yes there is. The statement that it fires as a normal cannon. A normal cannon cannot stand and shoot, therefore the ironblaster can't either, as that would break the statement that it fires like a normal cannon. And fluff wise, it takes time to reload. It isn't immediately ready to fire after its shot. It takes a turn to get everything ready again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpranis View Post
    What people are missing is that the Iron Blaster is a Chariot which affects its shooting arc. The "fire the cannon in the same way as a normal cannon" is simply a mechanism to resolve hits and wounds. The key is that as a chariot it cannot pivot and it must shoot in it front arc.

    Thus, yes there is nothing that states that and cannot stand and shoot from the front and it should be able to. Its simply a matter of charging from the side or rear which benefits from its large base size.

    To make the Ironblaster's movement and abilities take the negatives of both Chariot and war machine seems to be unfair.

    Additionally, in no way is the cannon slow to fire, it is the war machine mount that it is on that takes time to adjust and aim; for the cannon it is simply spark up and fire then immediately reload just like a regular weapon. As it is not mounted on a war machine this does not affect it and like I said, it can only shoot in it forward arc, thus it should be ready if someone charges the front.
    The faq says slow to fire, so no it can't stand and shoot

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